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"Crash" sound/distortion on attack

AdmiralB

Experienced
OK, I played with input gain. Doesn't seem to affect things at all - either direction, no better, no worse.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Fret buzz. Single coils exacerbate this. Treble boost (bright cap) makes it more audible. This is why pros use high action and thick strings.
 
Fret buzz. Single coils exacerbate this. Treble boost (bright cap) makes it more audible. This is why pros use high action and thick strings.
I found out this too many years ago.
Everytime I hear some of that I just raise my action a bit and it goes away:)

Every famous players guitar I have tried have had pretty high action compared to what you`d expect!
 

AdmiralB

Experienced
If it were fret buzz, why would it go away when I turn power amp sim off? And why doesn't the real amp do it also? Or my other modelers?

I've been playing over thirty years, and I've been doing fretwork for over a decade. This isn't fret buzz.

It's rather presumptive to assume that you know what strings and action I'm using, too.
 

ro-mix

Inspired
When i acountered same problem on Ultra i finally found that increasing action helps alot to achieve good clean tone.... But i wonder... why no one who has also Suhr modern (f.e Tom Quayle) doesn not use very high action and still has a round tone..... i dont know.... may be it is about how strong my picking hand works.... And also i wonder why we dont get it on real amps..... My solution for now - use low volumes on guitar + high input boost + low Bright cap (on Ultra)....
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I get it on my real amps. It's power tube clipping. Of course people rarely turn their real amps up loud enough to get significant power tube clipping OUTSIDE a band context and therefore don't notice it.
 
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AdmiralB

Experienced
You're telling me that you're gettting power tube clipping with a Strat into a Super Reverb with the volume on '1'?

Because I'm not.

And single coils can clip it, but EMG humbuckers and other high-output pickups don't?
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
I never said anything about a Super Reverb on '1'. Neither did you.

I'm trying to help you and you're getting snippy with me. If you want help ask nicely and I will strive to help you. If you continue with the aggressive attitude I won't respond further.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
There are several solutions: raise your action, turn off the bright switch, reduce the treble, turn down the presence. The noise is a plosive burst caused by the string rattling against the fret.

I encountered this several years ago and thought it was a flaw in the modeling algorithm. I hooked up the real amp (in isolation of course) and set the real amp to the same settings and, sure enough, it did the same thing. Then I noticed it was worse on certain strings. I finally traced it to fret buzz.

You can hear it in recordings where people cover SRV tunes. SRV never got that noise because he used huge strings and high action. Yet whenever you hear covers there is always that "splat" on the pick attack because you need enough gain and volume to replicate his tone but that causes the splat if you have low action.
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
I'm not at a place now where I can try things, will be in a few hours

But now you're heading towards "why would you want to do that" territory. Does it matter?

Something in the power amp can't handle large amounts of treble. I want to know how to fix it.
You asked for ideas about this issue you're experiencing, in your OP.
Several people are trying to help. Yet you dismiss everything that doesn't match your own POV. In a rude way too.
So why do you even ask... I'm outta here.
 

AdmiralB

Experienced
If you want help ask nicely and I will strive to help you. If you continue with the aggressive attitude I won't respond further.
I took your first post as "It's your fault. You're action is too low, your strings are too light, it's fret buzz."

Your second post says it's distortion, even though I pretty clearly said only low-output pickups do it.

So you might see how I might think you are being condescending. If that's not the case, then I apologize and I will concede that I simply misread your replies.

FWIW I tried it with a lap steel, and get the same results. So, not fret buzz. Although it does seem to be more problematic on some ranges of notes than others - seems to be worst from about open G on the third string up to about five or six steps higher, then it subsides.

I rarely play totally clean, and it's actually worse on patches with light amounts of distortion. I use several patches with the HBE but gain settings of only about 1.7 or so, and it's quite pervasive there.
 

AdmiralB

Experienced
You asked for ideas about this issue you're experiencing, in your OP.
Several people are trying to help. Yet you dismiss everything that doesn't match your own POV. In a rude way too.
So why do you even ask... I'm outta here.
I get frustrated with "Have you tried this?", when I've already written that I've tried it.

Your comment was along the lines of "Well, why would you ever have a patch that bright?". Surely you can see the issue with that approach.

If the real amps did this, then I'd never have posted in the first place.
 

grape

Experienced
I have this exact issue and it has persisted since my first axefx but always tried to fix it with different guitars, strings, action, and settings to no avail. I have been trying with a strat as of late but will try adjusting the action again (switched to heavier strings last week).

I hope this doesn't devolve without a resolution (either in guitar setup or axe modeling). I understand how it can be frustrating on both sides. It's a genuine concern that I'd like to figure out once and for all. Unfortunately I won't be near my guitar for several hours.
 

AdmiralB

Experienced
In case the lap steel was insufficient data, I raised the G string on one of my Strats as high as I could before the screws exited the bottom of the saddle - over a half-inch of action at the 12th fret - and I still get the problem.
 

AdmiralB

Experienced
I have this exact issue and it has persisted since my first axefx but always tried to fix it with different guitars, strings, action, and settings to no avail.
I've owned Axes since '08, and didn't notice it until about two weeks ago (I rarely play single coils).

I thought I was crazy, and then anyway I didn't have anything to compare to except other modelers - so I borrowed a Super Reverb and an AC-30 this weekend.
 

Kruegmeister

Inspired
I have 10.05 FW and a Standard Strat with HSS, a Petrucci EBMM with Split Coil Mod, and a Les Paul with a P90 in the Neck.
I do not get this at all on any of the Stock Fender Patches.
I use 0.010 strings and my Action is fairly low.
That clip sounds odd, like a digital distortion "clipping"...???...
One thing I would look into is your Input Gate Settings on the 3rd Page of Layout, cause I've heard this as an Incorrect Gate was Attacking, yours would be Releasing.
Also, Possibly... Have you tried doing a the System Reset?
From Manual
10.4 Reset System
This menu page includes a single parameter that is used to restore the factory default settings to System
Parameters, specifically:
GLOBAL Configuration parameters, Global OUT1 and OUT2 settings.
IO Input, Audio, MIDI, Control and Pedal Parameters.
LCD Display Contrast.
The following areas are NOT affected by RESET SYSTEM PARAMS:
User scale settings are NOT modified. User Cabs are NOT affected.
Global Blocks are NOT affected.
Preset memories are NOT affected.
Firmware is NOT affected.
To Reset System Parameters, select this menu page, then press ENTER.
A dialog will prompt you to “RESET ALL?” Press ENTER to execute the reset.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Did you put the borrowed amps in isolation? I would bet my hat that if you did this you'd hear the same thing. Amp-in-the-room comparisons are not accurate.

BTW, I have not listened to the clips. I'm just assuming you are hearing power tube clipping.
 

AdmiralB

Experienced
One thing I would look into is your Input Gate Settings on the 3rd Page of Layout, cause I've heard this as an Incorrect Gate was Attacking, yours would be Releasing.
Also, Possibly... Have you tried doing a the System Reset?
I will try these. Thank you!
 

AdmiralB

Experienced
Did you put the borrowed amps in isolation? I would bet my hat that if you did this you'd hear the same thing. Amp-in-the-room comparisons are not accurate.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'isolation'. If you mean like in a booth with me in a control room, then no. I just had the amps about three feet away from me, with me sitting on the floor in front of them.

If this is the problem, why not with higher-output pickups? Why does reducing brightness reduce it? You'd think clipping is clipping, and since low frequencies require more energy to cleanly reproduce, they'd clip first?
 
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