Counterfeit Guitars

6L6C

6L6C

Power User
A quick news story

Counterfeit Guitars Seized

I know it goes on everyday but shit like this just pisses me off, for a variety of reasons.
I think of some kid (or adult) buying that first Gibson or Fender only to find out later perhaps years, thats it not the real thing.
And also the fakes are just getting better and better, were years ago you could tell from 10 feet away, now you have to take a closer look.


I am glad the guitars are getting destroyed, I would also like to know who ordered them. But I am sure the media will never follow up with that (to small a story)
 
6L6C said:
A quick news story

Counterfeit Guitars Seized

I know it goes on everyday but shit like this just pisses me off, for a variety of reasons. And also the fakes are just getting better and better, I am glad the guitars are getting destroyed
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Hey 6L6C, you ought to be living in S.E. Asia if you want to get pissed off at counterfeits. In this country, they are sold and used more than the originals. They even stamp actual serial numbers on the headstock that, if researched on the internet, would spell-out the exact description of, (for example) a 1977 Gibson Les Paul custom Black Beauty. Some ebay advertisements list the serial number, making this possible. Protection measures for all types of intellectual property rights will NEVER be successful because numerous S.E.Asian governments (and China) don't take it seriously. (true with ALL products) They say they will cooperate with enforcements…trust me, they laugh at the west! I know every person that gigs this beach and not a one of them has a genuine Strat, LP, EVH, Ibanez, etc……getting pissed only gets your blood pressure up (that all)
 
It just goes to show how much is in a name, the lengths the counterfeiters will go to to get as close a copy as possible. Also it highlights the cultural difference in many Asian countries where to copy someone's designs is seen as a compliment to the designer. But the big name is king. For example, at many gigs I often get asked "why don't you play a Gibson this, or Fender that?". I say, "because my Music Man guitars are better in every respect"...then they say "ah..but it's not a Gibson or Fender, you should definately play one of those instead". There a lot of stigma attached to branding.
 
Yeah, anyone who would rip a musician off of their hard earned money should be jailed. That said, one of the best Les Pauls I've ever played is actually a fake. It was made by a luthier up around the Pacific Northwest area whose identity I don't know. I do know that when the guitar was handed to me to play, I could tell *something* was off about it; it just somehow looked and felt different than other Gibson Les Pauls I've played, so while it was a great guitar, I wasn't surprised when the owner told me it was fake.
 
I can understand the cultural differences to a degree. If your copying someones work as a complement that's fine. If your doing it to turn a profit and undercut the orignal even potentially hurting that business I have a problem with it. Inexpensive guitar building has come a log way sense the Japan law suite era of the 70's. With CNC machines of every kind able to crank out guitar bodies and necks with nere perfect results it's a wonder we don't see a lot more LP and strat copies on the stage here in the US.

Companies like Rondo that build inexpensive guitars that look like a LP or strat but put their own head stock design on it are at least being honest about it.

That said when you look at how much an actual LP or strat costs here in the states that's being built with the same kind machines some 30 guitars at a time one has to wonder how much of the price your paying for is the name aside from retail markup? I see the copies getting more expensive in the future. Labor will never stay the same especially in developing countries.
 
Both of Slash's Les Pauls used for the AFD album were fakes.

True story.

I am all for healthy competition and i find it laughable that somebody can trademark a guitar shape, killing off any competition. I don't agree that China or any other country made products should try to pass themselves off as the real deal to fool a customer who is prepared to part with thousands of pounds, thinking that they are buying an original. Relax the copyright laws and China can start selling their wares under a Chinese name legitimately. There's sum ting wong with selling fakes and China need to pull their finger out.
 
6L6C said:
A quick news story

Counterfeit Guitars Seized

I am glad the guitars are getting destroyed, I would also like to know who ordered them. But I am sure the media will never follow up with that (to small a story)
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I ordered them. Call the cops. 200 fake guitars worth $1,000,000???? That's $5000 per guitar. Even the real deal doesn't cost that much. And I guarantee that 185 guitars is a drop in the bucket compared to the ones that are getting through. Too bad US made guitars are so overpriced. If the Chinese can manufacture a decent guitar and ship it to the US for $250 (while still making a profit), you know the profit margin on the US versions is sky high.
 
Fabio KTG said:
I am all for healthy competition and i find it laughable that somebody can trademark a guitar shape, killing off any competition. I don't agree that China or any other country made products should try to pass themselves off as the real deal to fool a customer who is prepared to part with thousands of pounds, thinking that they are buying an original. Relax the copyright laws and China can start selling their wares under a Chinese name legitimately. There's sum ting wong with selling fakes and China need to pull their finger out.
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Guitar body shapes can't be trademarked, actually. Gibson has scared other companies off with the prospect of having to spend a lot of money to go to court, but it's been decided repeatedly that headstock shapes are trademarkable but bodies are not.

My opinion on it is this is similar to yours: There's a difference between a copy/homage and a counterfeit. I'm all for a luthier using an existing body shape, and even getting reeeeeaally close with the headstock (I do, after all, own an 8 string lefty Iceman that I could not have gotten from Ibanez). Where I draw the line, and where trademark should actually apply, is when a copy is made to be passed off as an original (which is what a counterfeit actually is, after all).
 
That's a little crazy. The cool thing about the article is that the inspectors actually recognized the poor quality of the rip offs enough to question their origin. That's impressive, I think.
 
steadystate said:
If the Chinese can manufacture a decent guitar and ship it to the US for $250 (while still making a profit), you know the profit margin on the US versions is sky high.
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They can't, which is part of how they got busted. Also, there is a huge difference in craftsmanship and materials quality between the real deal and the rip offs. I'm not saying the rip offs can't be good guitars, but I've played some and there is no question they are inferior in every respect. From the wood, to the finish, to the feel, to the electronics and ultimately, to the sound.
 
Kidsfeet said:
They can't, which is part of how they got busted. Also, there is a huge difference in craftsmanship and materials quality between the real deal and the rip offs. I'm not saying the rip offs can't be good guitars, but I've played some and there is no question they are inferior in every respect. From the wood, to the finish, to the feel, to the electronics and ultimately, to the sound.
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Some could argue that there are occasionally expensive Gibsons that end up feeling the same way.
 
Ben.Last said:
Some could argue that there are occasionally expensive Gibsons that end up feeling the same way.
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Agreed, but not on that level. The expectations on a genuine Gibson are much higher. A POS Chinese knock off is generally very easy to spot. With the knocks offs, it's every one, not just the odd Monday/Friday balk.
 
Back to back played a new LP standard with (what I ended up buying) Tokai Love Rock (96), and the Tokai smoked it, in every category for 1/3 the price. Gibson should be worried, as they are living off a 60+ year old design that isn't rocket science to re-create.
 
I don't know, I have played some pricey Gibsons that felt like crap.

I have played some imitation Gibsons either made in Asia or the US that played and sounded great.

If a fake Gibson was good enough for Slash and notable enough that Gibson made a tribute guitar of that fake for rubes that did not know the AFD guitar was a well crafted fake, then who am I to judge?

If Gibson actually made affordable quality guitars rather than $2,400 to $10,000 models for the day trader and IT crowd, they would kill that market a lot quicker than by random customs seizures.

And the Studio line and Epiphones are just not in the same class in many cases after you have played a bunch of them.
 
dr bonkers said:
If Gibson actually made affordable quality guitars rather than $2,400 to $10,000 models for the day trader and IT crowd, they would kill that market a lot quicker than by random customs seizures.

And the Studio line and Epiphones are just not in the same class in many cases after you have played a bunch of them.
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The differences between the LP Standards and the LP Studios are mostly cosmetic. That's what I don't get. Everyone complains about this, but if you don't mind not having the perflings/bindings, the flame top and a a fancy paint job, LPs are affordable. Check the specs. You'll see.
 
Gibson almost went out of biz in the 80's before Henry Juszkiewicz took over. I read how one of the key factors in the turnaround was his decision to drastically increase prices. Reasoning that Gibson is a high-quality brand, people actually WANT to pay more to reinforce their perception of quality. Gibson prices have continued getting more and more ridiculous ever since, so it must be working. The wine business works the same way, if it's good wine you sell more bottles of the exact same wine @ $20 per than you would at $10, because people feel it's going to be inferior wine if it only 10 bucks.
 
Kidsfeet said:
It was a copy made by a reputable luthier in LA who made it to exact Gibson specs. It was probably not far off the price of a REAL Gibson and made from quality woods, with expert craftsmanship.
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VERY important point up above here. Slash wasn't playing a $300 LP copy.



A friend of mine has one of the $300 fakes.
From 20 feet away, you couldn't tell the difference. Up close, the gold hardware is gross.
The neck felt like it was made out of rubber....it wouldn't stay in tune, and the action changed daily based on the sh*tty wood used in the neck.

The scary thing is that a 12 year old kid (9 times out of 10) would not know it was fake.
The only think that was out of spec (from what I could see) was that the pitch of the headstock was too steep.
Otherwise, they got the body cuts right on. The finish wasn't bad either.
 
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