Couldn't hear the backline?

W

WITELITE

Experienced
Played a gig last night. 5 piece band that included sax. Small club. Using my Axe III and a Atomic CLR Neo MK!!.

Set up and everything sounded great. Because I was next to the saxophone player (and acoustic drums) it was loud on stage. Monitors were mostly vocals and keyboard as he was going direct to PA (No Amp on Stage)

Although I had the amp what I thought to be a pretty good stage volume, I could barely hear it (using as a backline). There were a few times I went back to check that it was actually on.

Soundman and most in attendance said it sounded great and they could hear everything very well, but frustrating to me that I couldn't hear my guitar well (and the drummer commented the same)

I'm sure many of you have experienced this so looking for suggestions which I figure fall into
  • Turn the Backline Up
  • Put guitar in the Monitors (But then why use the backline)
  • Use IEMs

What are your thoughts/experiences?

Thanks

MM
 
You forgot:
  • Stand closer to the speaker/monitor.
People turn up when their ears get tired and they can't hear as well, and it takes discipline in every person on stage to leave their volume alone and trust that the settings at sound-check were right.

As far as IEM go, I'm seriously thinking about getting a pair of the 3DME IEMs. Pete Thorn has a great video about using them. They're expensive because you still have to connect them to the regular IEM receiver, but they'll let in as much ambient sound as you want, they limit it, and they can also take the normal IEM feed and you can balance the two.
 
To me an FRFR can that is powered is there for only the purpose of you. If you can't hear it then there is a stage/sound issue. A real cab on stage can serve two purposes - to let you band hear you and maybe the audience. You should just face that right toward you and put it volume wise why where you can hear it. Sounds like sound check was a fail..lol
 
Greg Ferguson said:
You forgot:
  • Stand closer to the speaker/monitor.
People turn up when their ears get tired and they can't hear as well, and it takes discipline in every person on stage to leave their volume alone and trust that the settings at sound-check were right.

As far as IEM go, I'm seriously thinking about getting a pair of the 3DME IEMs. Pete Thorn has a great video about using them. They're expensive because you still have to connect them to the regular IEM receiver, but they'll let in as much ambient sound as you want, they limit it, and they can also take the normal IEM feed and you can balance the two.
Click to expand...
Are those the one Setve Vai is using....he said those are great...
 
A CLR wedge should be facing you for best results - especially when running through the PA - and you should never have a problem hearing it.
It will keep the stage volume down and the other band members may pull back a bit too.
 
Doesn’t get much better than running stereo with a good mix through a quality transmitter/receiver and good set of IEMs (custom molds, at least several drivers). But that takes some investment and solid communication with your engineer that is often not present at a typical casino/bar gig where you’re bringing your own backline. In your case I would probably try to stand closer to the CLR and further from the drums.

Edit: I just saw that Atomic has flat and angled CLR cabs. If you have the flat one, I would definitely replace it with the angled one so it’s pointing at your head. If your goal is to hear yourself then you can blast your legs all you want and it won’t help much.
 
Last edited:
IF it was too quiet, then turn it up louder. Don't forget to match the switch to the position you're using it in for the proper DSP magic. I prefer the sound on a speaker stand with the proper DSP setting. I'm one of those weirdos who only powered the top 4x12 cab so I could keep the volume lower but still hear it clearly.
 
I always bring two (2) CLRs stacked as my backline, and I put them on a small table so I can hear them both. Some guitar in the monitors doesn´t hurt.
 
WITELITE said:
Played a gig last night. 5 piece band that included sax. Small club. Using my Axe III and a Atomic CLR Neo MK!!.

Set up and everything sounded great. Because I was next to the saxophone player (and acoustic drums) it was loud on stage. Monitors were mostly vocals and keyboard as he was going direct to PA (No Amp on Stage)

Although I had the amp what I thought to be a pretty good stage volume, I could barely hear it (using as a backline). There were a few times I went back to check that it was actually on.

Soundman and most in attendance said it sounded great and they could hear everything very well, but frustrating to me that I couldn't hear my guitar well (and the drummer commented the same)

I'm sure many of you have experienced this so looking for suggestions which I figure fall into
  • Turn the Backline Up
  • Put guitar in the Monitors (But then why use the backline)
  • Use IEMs

What are your thoughts/experiences?

Thanks

MM
Click to expand...
While turning up might be the easiest option. It could be a problem for the other guys in the band. Get an amp stand or just mount the CLR on a speaker pole. If you are playing a big stage, you need some guitar in the monitors. Using IEMs would work, but that requires you get all the other guys in your ears and the mix dialed in. Avoid IEM's if you can.
 
I had this issue outdoors. Had both clrs way up and still couldn’t hear it. Just went out into the ether. At home or in a club those settings would kill you.
 
More mids! At least in your CLRs.

When you know you're playing loud, but you still can't hear yourself in the mix, it's usually a lack of midrange. It doesn't help that you were next to the sax, which is a brutally midrange instrument. Get as far away from him/her as possible. Boost your own mids to make up the difference.
 
Last edited:
Any chance you weren't wearing ear plugs? Using ear plugs to bring the overall volume down can make it easier to pick out different instruments, including your own. Plus, if you can't hear yourself during the first song, it's only going to get worse as your ears get fatigued.
 
WITELITE said:
...
  • Put guitar in the Monitors (But then why use the backline)
Click to expand...
That's our approach, playing in a 4-piece with me on electric guitar and the other guitarist on acoustic. Neither of us use any backline, and both guitars are running direct from their preamps (Axe-Fx III for me and AX8 for the other guy) to the mixer. We both have separate FRFR powered wedges in front of us with whatever mix we want. We don't mic the drums most of the time due to the small pubs we play in, and although the bass is running into the board, he's also playing through a bass combo so we seldom need to run any of it to FOH.
 
Somewhere in another forum, your sax player is talking about how great their last show was and that they could hear themselves over electric guitar.

It becomes a volume war when you are close to another instrument. I have an FRFR wedge in front of me pointing right at my face in small stages. Or we just go with IEMs which solves a lot of problems (and creates a set of new ones).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom