"Correct" EQing techniques

RockerAlex

Inspired
So as I delve more into the FRFR world and UR IRs I come across even MORE parameters that need tweaking (just when I thought I was learning this thing ...)

My question to you guys is: what are you doing EQ wise for high gain tones? I.e. what's going on in your:

  • Amp block Low/High Cut
  • Power Amp Low/High Cut (do people use these?)
  • Cab Low/High Cut ... does using all 3 of these together make sense or defeat the purpose?
  • What are you doing with PEQs/GEQs and where are they in the chain? (I recently read PEQ before everything works well, I'm beginning to think it sounds better too, I've also noticed I have to cut a lot harder on the highs with IRs, 12k for my real cab but 6 for FRFR ... ?)

Long story short I still seem to have a long way to go mastering this magic box, but I'm giving myself big time ear fatigue sitting here for hours on end seemingly getting nowhere. Any tips?
 
the only control that you mentioned that I use is the Cut switch on the amp block. I never need any of the others, ever. perhaps post a preset or a recording of something you feel needs this drastic eq'ing?
 
I'm finding myself setting cab block hi cut around 5 or 6.5k with a PEQ post cab hi blocking around 5k.
This compares closely with my mic'd cab tones without going too deep in the advanced amp parameters.

I am only using Axe DI so far.

Oh, and cab block lo cut 50 to 95Hz if there's too much woof.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
very dependent on the ir as well....some of the older ir's needed some hi cut, to my ears, most of the newer ones don't need all that.

i just use the cut switch to tighten up some amps....
 
i primarily use the "cut" switch. But when I do I usually go into the amp block low cut parameter and just set that to 10hz. That's just to make sure I'm not adding a double low cut on those amps that already have a default low cut that's around the same frequency as the switch.
 
Last edited:
I'll post a preset today when I get a minute fellas, I just can't seem to call out the excessive "sssss" on the high gain patches with IRs (even with smooth/ideal on) ... Funny enough it was easier on my real cab.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 
I find that a lot of people use cuts and shelving because they're trying to "tighten things up", when really they're trying to get rid of mushy frequencies and "woofy/boominess" or shrill, ear splitting frequencies. The best way to deal with this problem is to do it like any studio engineer does. Put a PEQ at the end of your signal path and boost the suspect frequency with a tight Q value. Scroll up and down until that suspect frequency is really apparent and then cut it by a few Db and open the Q a little. Don't ever boost good frequencies, subtract and cut the bad ones. Google "Subtractive EQ".

The Cakewalk Blog » Blog Archive » Subtractive EQ Part 2: Heavy Rhythm and Lead Guitars



 
I find that a lot of people use cuts and shelving because they're trying to "tighten things up", when really they're trying to get rid of mushy frequencies and "woofy/boominess" or shrill, ear splitting frequencies. The best way to deal with this problem is to do it like any studio engineer does. Put a PEQ at the end of your signal path and boost the suspect frequency with a tight Q value. Scroll up and down until that suspect frequency is really apparent and then cut it by a few Db and open the Q a little. Don't ever boost good frequencies, subtract and cut the bad ones. Google "Subtractive EQ".

The Cakewalk Blog » Blog Archive » Subtractive EQ Part 2: Heavy Rhythm and Lead Guitars





Not to sound full of myself, as I clearly have a problem getting "that tone", but I study music/music production so I've heard of these techniques indeed ... I'm just confused as to why pre eqing in the Axe made a huge difference ... maybe I just had tired ears last night.

The problem I'm having is highlighted in that second video from the very start ... I'm not sure if he's using digital gear or not, but you can definitely hear that "zzz" distortion thing going on which, to me, sounds low quality and "fake." (Like Line 6 distortion :|)
 
Not to sound full of myself, as I clearly have a problem getting "that tone", but I study music/music production so I've heard of these techniques indeed ... I'm just confused as to why pre eqing in the Axe made a huge difference ... maybe I just had tired ears last night.

The problem I'm having is highlighted in that second video from the very start ... I'm not sure if he's using digital gear or not, but you can definitely hear that "zzz" distortion thing going on which, to me, sounds low quality and "fake." (Like Line 6 distortion :|)

Perhaps that is the case, however the technique is exactly the same. Have you considered using a PEQ/GEQ before the amp? I do it quite a lot now. Why don't you post a clip or the preset and I'll have a gander?
 
Perhaps that is the case, however the technique is exactly the same. Have you considered using a PEQ/GEQ before the amp? I do it quite a lot now. Why don't you post a clip or the preset and I'll have a gander?

Just fired it up there ... swear this stuff sounds different every day, it's getting frustrating. Perhaps a sign of some external/faulty factor?

Anyway, here's the patch and IR I'm using. It just doesn't sound record/mix ready quite yet to me.
 

Attachments

  • First FR Patc.syx
    6.3 KB · Views: 6
  • GH ThisOne Ultrares.syx
    10.6 KB · Views: 7
OK, so I'm looking at your preset. A few things to note.

1 Put the looper at the beginning, not the end. Any changes to your preset won't change in real time unless the looper is the first thing in the signal path.
2 PEQ at the beginning and the end is unnecessary.
3 Your IR sounds like shit, and all the EQ in the world won't make it sound any better. It sounds scooped and brittle, so the boost in the mids in your end PEQ block is attempting to counteract it. Change your IR and reset the amp block.
4 Don't use a drive block unless you know why you're using it. All most drive blocks do is add a predetermined EQ curve to the front end of the amp. A GEQ/PEQ block will do this job better. Your BB Pre settings look like there set at default which indicated that you're not familiar with EQ-ing drives and how they affect the amp block., which is fine.
5 Keep things simple. If you can't get somewhere in the ball park without a drive and several EQ's the problem is the IR or Amp, nothing else.
6 Reverb, used tastefully is your friend and will help your tone sound like it's in space (not outer space) and help it sound a little more 3 dimensional.
7 Don't cut EQ's on guitars below 10kHz. The high end detail is important and fizz is your friend.
8 Use a gate between the drive amp amp block to tame the hum/buzz etc.
 
OK, so I'm looking at your preset. A few things to note.

1 Put the looper at the beginning, not the end. Any changes to your preset won't change in real time unless the looper is the first thing in the signal path.
2 PEQ at the beginning and the end is unnecessary.
3 Your IR sounds like shit, and all the EQ in the world won't make it sound any better. It sounds scooped and brittle, so the boost in the mids in your end PEQ block is attempting to counteract it. Change your IR and reset the amp block.
4 Don't use a drive block unless you know why you're using it. All most drive blocks do is add a predetermined EQ curve to the front end of the amp. A GEQ/PEQ block will do this job better. Your BB Pre settings look like there set at default which indicated that you're not familiar with EQ-ing drives and how they affect the amp block., which is fine.
5 Keep things simple. If you can't get somewhere in the ball park without a drive and several EQ's the problem is the IR or Amp, nothing else.
6 Reverb, used tastefully is your friend and will help your tone sound like it's in space (not outer space) and help it sound a little more 3 dimensional.
7 Don't cut EQ's on guitars below 10kHz. The high end detail is important and fizz is your friend.
8 Use a gate between the drive amp amp block to tame the hum/buzz etc.

1. Not so worried about the Looper at this point. :p
2. That end PEQ is some "trick" used to make FRFR tones cut through a mix, I'm not sure whether I like it or not. The one at the start is what I mentioned in the post above ... to me it sounds far better at the start of the chain than after the cab, which makes no sense to me.
3. GuitarHack "ThisOne" is the only IR I can get to sound "good" (in my opinion) ... I've been really struggling to find anything that I don't have to dish out cash for.
4. Those Drive block settings are purely for a "clean" boost, I understand this changes the EQ of the amp but I like what it does to the tone rather than just sticking the Boost switch on and slamming the Amp hard with Input Trim. (This is what I used to do.)
5. I'm not even sure I am close, which is the problem :lol
6. Usually add Reverbs n shit in inside a DAW, as this tone is predominately going to be used for recording direct in.
7. I honestly can't stand any hiss above 8k, but I'm looking carefully at this preset and see that I've set it to 6k which is a pretty harsh cut ... I think my head was done in from tweaking yesterday.
8. I've usually got the results I need from the Input Noise Gate, you don't recommend using this?
 
Definitely post a clip or video of a guitar sound you're going for.

Also, what are you using for a speaker for your "FRFR" setup?


What Fabio posted has mirrored my experience with studio monitors very well - the current firmware with a decent IR is about as plug-and-play as any real amp I've ever used. If his suggestions are far afield from your current experience, then I wonder if your speaker is just really hyped in a particular region. Have you tried playing back a commercial mix you like through your FRFR setup to make sure it sounds at least reasonably flat?
 
1. Not so worried about the Looper at this point. :p

The point of the looper is being able to tweak while having a consistent scratch track to work with, and being hands free and if you use a laptop with a decent length USB you can move around and get a better idea of the room fill as well.

Using the looper and axe edit, one can take snapshots of your tweaks and quickly reload them for comparisons.

Ever since getting the Axe FX II this is the only way I tweak now and it's saved me hours of time.
 
what tone are you going for?
Standard "djent" kind of shit.

Definitely post a clip or video of a guitar sound you're going for.

Also, what are you using for a speaker for your "FRFR" setup?


What Fabio posted has mirrored my experience with studio monitors very well - the current firmware with a decent IR is about as plug-and-play as any real amp I've ever used. If his suggestions are far afield from your current experience, then I wonder if your speaker is just really hyped in a particular region. Have you tried playing back a commercial mix you like through your FRFR setup to make sure it sounds at least reasonably flat?

Mackie MR8s currently ... after a little Skype session with Fabio I realize a lot more now!

Be sure to have fresh ears. Tired ears is your worst enemy ;)

You can say that again heh.
 
Have you tried doing a tone match to something that you like? Thats definitely the faster way to get where you are trying to go without auditioning 1,000 IRs.

It is ALL about the IR. My advice would be to use the FAS Modern amp at the default settings, remove any type of EQ blocks in the chain, and start by finding an IR that is as close as possible to the final sound you are looking for. If you dont find the impulse response FIRST, you are working yourself into a corner. Once you find an appropriate IR (this depends on your guitar, other gear, playing technique, ect), then you should start making tweaks with an EQ.

You may want to try using the lo-cut in the amp block as it basically works as a low cut filter BEFORE the amp block. This will tighten up your tone a lot and you need it for that style of music. Other than that, the only tweaks I do in the deeper parameters are boosting the definition parameter and the pick attack parameter a bit.
 
its interesting to hear a djent player be concerned with fizz...an absolutely necessary component of that genre for the tone to cut. i mean, listen to some of Misha's stems....
 
its interesting to hear a djent player be concerned with fizz...an absolutely necessary component of that genre for the tone to cut. i mean, listen to some of Misha's stems....

On the contrary, the djent tone is all about 1400Hz and boosting it. Fizz is important as high end detail which gives tone space, like reverb does. You could dial the fizz out, but the cymbals would sound lonely without it.
 
Back
Top Bottom