Convince me to go FRFR

searching

Inspired
FRFR is all the rage around here and I'm curious about it but not convinced it'll be good for my application. I do like the idea of a smaller guitar rig.

The other guitar player in my band uses a marshall head and 4x12.
I like the way my cab sounds.
I don't need a million different IR's to choose from for a live sound.
I play small venues that don't have good PA's. (So direct to FOH doesn't do much good.)
The venues don't even mic the guitar cabs usually.
 
Also does anyone using FRFR play in a band with another guitarist who uses a real cab? Does that combination work?
 
I use a 4x12 mesa recto cab. I use a real mesa triaxis preamp and fifty/fifty power amp for live use. I've found that when using a real cab and power amp the triaxis sounds better than using the axe fx with power amp sims turned off. When playing at home through my monitors I use some of the "USA pre" amp models which are based on the Triaxis.

Basically if I switched to a FRFR amp I could try ditching all of the tube pre and power amps but the other guitarist in our band uses a real cab. That plus the crappy PA's where we play make me think staying with my current setup is better for me. But I'm looking for other opinions in case I'm missing something.
 
For my use, loud metal band, I prefer my frfr setup to my real cab. Even if you are just using a single ir and don't need a bunch of different sounds there are still big benefits.

The pointy on-axis laser of sound that real cabs create is not ideal. I think this is really noticeable in small rooms where you are not really relying on FOH for your sound. Like band practice or smaller venues. If both guitars go frfr it is like a revelation. Even sound through out and so much easier to mix.

Another benefit is you can really dial in the cab and mic tone, mix speaker types, etc. To be honest the smaller changes are pretty hard to notice when playing live but they do add up.

Also if you go powered frfr you don't need am amp. Very simple setup.

The downside is the learning curve and imo live sound is much harder to dial in compared to studio.

Convinced yet? ;)
 
FRFR is all the rage around here and I'm curious about it but not convinced it'll be good for my application. I do like the idea of a smaller guitar rig.

The other guitar player in my band uses a marshall head and 4x12.
I like the way my cab sounds.
I don't need a million different IR's to choose from for a live sound.
I play small venues that don't have good PA's. (So direct to FOH doesn't do much good.)
The venues don't even mic the guitar cabs usually.

No. Don't do it. Unless you have tons of time and money to chase this down, you'll more likely be complaining about how it's just not the same feel, bandmates and audience complaints, and that you can't keep up with the other guitarist's volume and the rest of the band. All those issues are easily solved in some way, but I can tell just by how you've described your situation....not for you. Save your time - and ours - and save your money. Don't get me wrong...IMO, FR is a great way to go, but it takes time, patience, and generally speaking a fair amount of $$$ to get powered FR speakers that will do you right. You'll be trading something that you KNOW works (your current rig) and isn't terribly simple, for something that MIGHT work for you, and isn't necessarily any simpler, though it might be a little bit smaller and more consistent sounding....IF you actually like how it performs.

Use the AxeFx for effects, and if you're feeling adventurous, use the amp models that are simpatico with your mesa rig, and plug the Fractal into your amp in/fx in to power your 4x12.

Now, if you'd said that you're in a band where the other guitarist is using a 2x12, the band is volume conscious, and you typically perform on pretty good sounding PA systems, that would be a different story.

Unless you literally have someone who has made this type of transition to guide you by the hand and show you how this is done, what techniques to use, what gear to use, and what to expect, I'd guess that you're just going to get frustrated and go back to the tried-and-true anyway.

JMHO.
 
I'd say its the exact opposite. I found my Atomic CLR's (far cheaper, plus easier to carry than a Marshall head and 4x12) as simple as plug in, turn on, play. Sound amazing without any need for tweaking, and that sound is evenly heard across the stage.

Problem I always had with real cabs is the directional nature of them. It could sound great when I'd stand slightly off axis, but in front of it was too harsh and beaming, yet then other people couldn't hear it on the other side of the stage, so I'd turn up, and then audience in front was getting blasted, just never ending issue with volume and dispersion. My CLR sounds as good on axis as far off axis, and drummers, etc all reported how much easier they could hear me, even though I actually had less volume than normal. Furthermore, I can easily ramp the levels up and down without significant changes in tone, which was problematic when I was running a NMV amp as sometimes I'd be requested to turn it down to the point where the tone would suffer.

CLR has been a dream for me, works as a wedge, works as a backline, even can be put on a pole and used as a FOH speaker. 2 inputs as well so you can run vocals etc into it as well. Fantastic for smaller gigs, and if the venue does have a decent FOH system its easy to adjust the levels of using it as a personal stage monitor or side fill roll.

If there is another guitarist using a cab though that may prove a little difficult, depending on how he/she likes to hear themselves on stage. Certainly some folks like to hear themselves, even if its detrimental to the rest of the band/audience.

Overall though the pros far outweigh the cons, at least for me.

I sold my amp and cab for more than enough to pay for two CLR's and have a good bit left over, and while I have the heavier-non neo version of the CLR, I can still carry it with one hand, it fits into my trunk or backseat etc, which my 4x12 never did, and it sounds better and more consistent in more environments.

Your miliage may vary of course, but I found it as simple as just plug in it into my AX8, go to the HBE patch with default cab, turn up the levels to the intensity level I wanted and it sounded just perfect. Exactly the tone I was always trying to get from my real cabs, without any concerns about directional beaming or levels, mic'ing things, etc.
 
@lqdsnddist, you're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned. I've got the original CLR cabs and I also hooked up a guitarist with a CLR that he uses exclusively live for all amp & cab modeling and effects. It sounds great, kicks ass. Of course, he's not making a leap from a 4x12 traditional cabinet or competing with another guitarist using a 4x12 cab. And we're both experienced live mixers, so the sound of a cab sim via a PA cabinet doesn't raise an eyebrow. And we're always gigging on top notch PA gear.

My skepticism with the OP simply has to do with a gut feeling based on the content and his circumstance. I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this one...but still just my hunch. One thing for sure IMO, some focused guidance and hands-on demo goes a long way when trying to make the pivot from traditional to FR.
 
@lqdsnddist, you're preaching to the choir as far as I'm concerned. I've got the original CLR cabs and I also hooked up a guitarist with a CLR that he uses exclusively live for all amp & cab modeling and effects. It sounds great, kicks ass. Of course, he's not making a leap from a 4x12 traditional cabinet or competing with another guitarist using a 4x12 cab. And we're both experienced live mixers, so the sound of a cab sim via a PA cabinet doesn't raise an eyebrow. And we're always gigging on top notch PA gear.

My skepticism with the OP simply has to do with a gut feeling based on the content and his circumstance. I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this one...but still just my hunch. One thing for sure IMO, some focused guidance and hands-on demo goes a long way when trying to make the pivot from traditional to FR.

I agree with Jimfist here. My first reaction after reading the post was - don't do it.
I'm all about FRFR (I own XiTone, CLR, RCF, etc.)...but based on the OPs description of his situation, I think he'll be frustrated.
It's not the same as a 4x12, and it takes some adjustment to get used to. The entire time he'll be trying to get adjusted, the other guys in the band are going to be saying that it doesn't sound the same as his 4x12.

I would suggest getting a small FRFR for home, so you can dial in some patches and fall in love with the Power Amp and Cab modelling. Then when you get to a point that you enjoy that flexibility, try out some bigger FRFR options.
Or at a minimum....rent some FRFR options before investing in one.
 
Use the Axe Fx with power amp modelling on, a solid state power amp like a Matrix and your guitar cab.

I don't think you will miss the tube pre and power amp...
 
I guess the real trick is getting the other guitarist to go Fractal, or at least a load box, and then go FRFR as well lol.

I think real amps are still cool in the studio, but the days of 4x12's and 100watt amp heads, for gigging are going to become more and more rare. Too loud, too directional, too heavy, too expensive etc. Way I kind of look at is is if some of the biggest touring acts in the world, like Metallica, have switched to going direct to FOH, its simply because its the "best" overall option for live performance and consistent tone night after night. They've got the resources and manpower where hauling a few amps and cabs isn't a big deal, plus dedicated support to keep the rigs running, can run the amps loud in ISO cabinets under the stage etc, yet they go and run the same Fractal rig that I'm using.

When I grew up, all we had were amps. We'd drag our Twins or 4x12's from an old beater band someone we knew let us use, pile all that gear on a tiny little stage, and crank those amps, poorly playing punk songs for 20 people in attendance. Then 30 minutes later another group of guys would load in their 4x12's and 100 watt heads, and they'd poorly play more punk songs, etc etc. Everyone left with hearing damage and we spent more time loading in/out than we spent playing.

I can't tell you what I would of given for an AX8 in those days. Carry in this little box that sounds better than any amp I owned, and that has about 199 more amps I couldn't even dream of owning, plug right into FOH and play. When done carry my guitar case in one hand, my AX8 bag in another, home.
 
I agree with all the comments. It can and will be great as long as you spend enough to get a high quality monitor and are willing to put in the time to educate yourself.

When I first tried to switch, I plugged it in at band practice, scrolled through some factory cabs completely at random, couldn't find a good sound so threw my hands up and thought there went $900 down the drain. It sat for months before I decided to give it another try. After finding the right ir and settings, it was very quickly sounding great.
 
I would suggest getting a small FRFR for home, so you can dial in some patches and fall in love with the Power Amp and Cab modelling. Then when you get to a point that you enjoy that flexibility, try out some bigger FRFR options.
Or at a minimum....rent some FRFR options before investing in one.

I do have a small FRFR setup at home. It's my studio monitors. :D I like the sounds I get from the axe fx and all the cab modeling I can explore. But when I plug in my triaxis and tube power amp, and use the axe fx for fx only I like that sound better.

Sound dispersion is something I did overlook. It seems like everyone likes that FRFR is less directional than a traditional cab. That and weight seem like they are the main benefits for me.

Everything else just seems like it confirms my initial thought that it would not be worth it for me in my specific circumstance.
 
I do have a small FRFR setup at home. It's my studio monitors. :D I like the sounds I get from the axe fx and all the cab modeling I can explore. But when I plug in my triaxis and tube power amp, and use the axe fx for fx only I like that sound better.

I fully understand where you're coming from.
When I plug into my Marshall JMP-1 100/100 tub power amp, and Mesa 4x12. I like it better than my Axe through FRFR.
But for my situation (weekly gigging), the Axe is a godsend. I can't even imagine dragging around a 4x12 any more, and moving that Marshall 100/100 by itself in a 3 space rack case is just awful. What a beast!....but amazing tone. That's my basement rig. For leaving the house, I can't see myself ever not using the Axe.

It sounds like you're not there (yet), so keep rocking the 4x12 and tube power. If it works, it works.
 
Yeah, the shows are only about once per month for me right now. If we ramp things up I can definitely see getting tired of lugging around the huge tube setup I have now. So I guess I'll just leave it at "maybe someday".
 
Back
Top Bottom