Controlling lighting

vangrieg

Fractal Fanatic
So, I’ve been into automating the heck everything I can lately, playing the last gig without using any foot controllers whatsoever, which brought me to the issue of controlling lights. However, I don’t want to use a hardware controller or carry any new hardware apart from a MIDI/DMX converter.

Now, I sort of understand how it works in general, I totally understand how to write automation in my DAW, I know which cables to use etc.

But. What I don’t get is how it works in practice. And whether it is possible to run some simulations before connecting to actual hardware.

Let’s say I’m happy to leave a lot of lighting decisions to the house engineer. But want to control several things:

1. Have some spotlight on for a guitar solo (assuming I can physically direct it to a right place prior to the gig). Or focus on the singer, drummer, etc. With some variability depending on house hardware.
2. Have those bright fill flash type thingies in the back flash with kick drum at certain moments.
3. Make the stage dark.
4. Maybe some other basic things I don’t know yet. Strobes?

My understanding is that I can pre-program this and, at the venue, just select the channels to fit the specific setup.

That wouldn’t work for movement though, as I would need to know the coordinates.

Right?

Or maybe I’m missing something?

Does anyone do something similar? Without owning and carrying your own hardware?

Also, can someone point me to some good tutorial on some basic rules and concepts? Most I’ve seen talk a lot about protocols etc., which is the easy part. But I haven’t seen any good ones about how specific lights are called, what they are good for, how to emphasize something with lights - that kind of stuff.

Oh, and what about simulation software?
 
All would have to be done with a click track using DMX and midi, look into a unit called DMXIS, then you have to program all the cues... can take months ;) Can youtube some of the dmxis stuff and see how it's used. There is a praise and worship guy using it to automate stuff.
 
Yeah, I’ve seen the DMXIS and understand the approach. Since I already use automation in every song (tempo changes, Scene changes, loopers, backing tracks, even wah) - every song is divided into sections, marked and synced to click tracks. This isn’t the problem.

The problem is understanding whether it’s practical to use without own hardware.

The worship guys do it in their own churches, so that’s different.
 
I've often contemplated doing my own light show, but man it would be a lot to setup and move around. You might be able to tie into existing lights at gigs, but setting all that up would take ages. If you had say maybe 4 moving head lights you could program up a small show and do what you are asking, and it wouldnt take that long.
 
I really don’t know how you would program that stuff without having the lights to try it out with. Unless you’re using fixed lights. Moving head lights are going to change as soon as you move them a little bit from where they were when you programmed them.

I have 6 lights I use sometimes with ShowBuddy/DMXIS. But I use no moving heads. It’s just a bank of 4 behind me and two on top of the PA cabs to the side. I thought of getting a couple of moving heads to put on the floor but I’m not using the ones I have right now much.

I can program the lights for songs now without the lights set up because I can predict what they’re going to do with my setup since it’s so basic. But if I didn’t know what lights I was going to get at the gig there’s no way to do this realistically. The channel assignments for lights vary a lot unless they are the same brand and model.
 
I really don’t know how you would program that stuff without having the lights to try it out with. Unless you’re using fixed lights. Moving head lights are going to change as soon as you move them a little bit from where they were when you programmed them.

That’s why I was asking about simulation software.

As for different channels - Usually venues have light plots, with fixtures and their channels drawn around the stage. So that could be prepared for in advance, doesn’t seem too difficult.

Moving lights - sure, I couldn’t possibly account for different coordinates everywhere. So I was thinking about automating only spotlight on/off states
 
On the channels, I mean each light has different DMX channels for that specific light. So the light you program might use 7 DMX channels for its controls and another might use some other combination/number of channels. I'm not sure how you are going to predict well enough what you're going to get and reprogramming would be a humongous job. But I've never used simulation software so I might be wrong on that. It would be cool if it's that easy.
 
Well, maybe I’m daydreaming, but my thinking went something like this:

- have principal things automated like (well, I’m not sure what they are, but mostly I was thinking about those bright flash thingies in the back, all off, all on - those types of commands). This automation would be recorded as MIDI tracks in my DAW and wouldn’t change.
- use some software (there are plenty), for conversion of MIDI to DMX channel info.
- before a gig, get the light plot from the venue, with specific channels for fixtures.
- in the MIDI to DMX software, change channels appropriately.

You think it wouldn’t work?

I mean, this should be done somehow - I couldn’t possibly carry all those things venues have, those are much more numerous and better. And obviously, I see bands using automation. I can’t imagine them bringing their own lights to every show and replacing house stuff!

Simulation software isn’t for adjusting to venues, it’s to get the basic idea programmed. It’s hard to automate lights without seeing, I would guess.
 
Your thinking makes sense. The only part I have a question about is this:
- in the MIDI to DMX software, change channels appropriately.
I have never done this. That's what I would want to see in action. It sounds easy enough stated that way.
Good luck. I'm interested to see how it goes.
 
Your thinking makes sense. The only part I have a question about is this:

I have never done this. That's what I would want to see in action. It sounds easy enough stated that way.
Good luck. I'm interested to see how it goes.

Well, thanks anyway!

I can't be the only one in the world who wants to do this, can I? :)
 
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