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Control Switch Momentary Bug

BryantP

Administrator
Moderator
Do you have Hold Setting set to “on release” instead of “timeout” in Setup>FC> Config?
He has it set to timeout: 2 seconds.

I'm using 12.08 beta and 1.11 in FC6.
Can you try to configure it again, please? If it's still not working, store the preset and upload it again. I want to be positive I'm working with the exact same configuration parameters as you.
 

chris

Legend!
@Admin M@ The momentary function of the control switch used from a per-preset setting is not working properly when used through the system's per-preset placeholder category. When it is programmed in this way the light does not come on and the information from the Control Switch is only triggered when you release the button and before the time set in the press and hold timeout in the Fc config window.
what parameter is the Control Switch affecting? loading your preset, i don't see any Control Switches used in the Modifiers list:

Screen Shot 2020-04-22 at 11.06.03 AM.png
 

chris

Legend!
i loaded the user preset with matching FW on Axe and FC6. i did not load system data.

i did not see any Control Switch designations in the preset.

i added Control Switch 1 as the Source on the Drive block Tone parameter (i just chose something randomly).

i set Switch 1 of Layout 1 to Per-Preset Placeholder 15 (random number).

i set PP#15 tap function to Control Switch 1 momentary.

tapping on Switch 1 immediately lights up the LED and the Tone control responds as expected.

even with nothing in the preset assigned to Control Switch 1 (i cleared my previous assignment), the switch itself (doing nothing to the preset) lights up immediately when i press it and the main FC LCD shows "control switch on" and it changes to off when i release it before the screen timeout.

maybe i don't understand what the initial report is saying, but it's working as expected here.

i repeated the test, this time loading the system data. and the problem presented.
--

when loading the system data, i see that PP#5 is the Control switch. and on the FC12 layout, switch 5 is the TremWhammy where it uses PP#5.

however, i also see on that same switch, a hold function for PP#1, which is a Scene 1 select.

at the start of this thread, i asked if there was a Hold function on the Control Switch:

No, I just have the tap function programmed on this switch, did you try to test this situation that I described?
did something change before you uploaded the preset and system file? there definitely is a Hold function there when i loaded the preset and system files:

Screen Shot 2020-04-22 at 11.17.16 AM.png

if i clear that PP#1 Hold function, the switch immediately works properly.

the reason this isn't working is there is a Hold function set on a switch where the Tap function is a Momentary Control Switch (the first question i asked ;) )

the Control Switch tells the Axe to listen to a momentary command - press it down it's on, let go it's off.

a conflicting message is telling it at the same time to listen to a command where the switch is being held down for 2 seconds.

how can it listen to the momentary command (where you hold the switch down to turn an effect on as long as you're holding) but also listen for holding the switch down for 2 seconds? the Control Switch momentary supercedes the 2 second Hold function.

but since there's that hold function, the Control Switch never sends its "i'm holding it down, turn on the effect" message because the switch is also trying to wait for 2 seconds.

it's a conflict.

can you confirm that earlier you said you just have the tap function on the switch, but there actually is a Hold function as shown in the above picture? if that is the case, this isn't a bug, but just 2 incompatible settings on the same switch.

if you remove that Hold function, the Control Switch will immediately work.

the confusion might be this:

in your Per-Preset switches setup, you maybe didn't assign a Hold function on any of the PP#s.

however, on the Switch itself, there IS a Hold function assigned as shown in the picture.

to use a PP# Hold function, you need to define it in PP# and also assign it to the switch itself. in this case, you assigned a Hold function to the switch itself, but just happened to not assign the underlying placehold'd function in the PP# area. the Switch still thinks it has a Hold function, as shown in the picture - it just wouldn't do anything in this situation.

so remove the Hold function from the switch itself, and it will work. assigning a Hold function in the PP# area doesn't also assign it to the Switch itself by just giving the Tap function a job. the Hold function separately has to be assigned as well. this situation is a bit of the opposite where you did assign a Hold function on the Switch itself, and that supersedes Hold functions not being assigned on the PP# area.
 
Last edited:

Zéx

Member
Thanks Chris for the extensive testing.

i did not see any Control Switch designations in the preset.
I use this switch to send a midi command

when loading the system data, i see that PP#5 is the Control switch. and on the FC12 layout, switch 5 is the TremWhammy where it uses PP#5.
however, i also see on that same switch, a hold function for PP#1

yes this P # 1 on hold function appears here too, maybe I changed it when I was testing

if i clear that PP#1 Hold function, the switch immediately works properly.

the reason this isn't working is there is a Hold function set on a switch where the Tap function is a Momentary Control Switch (the first question i asked ;) )

the Control Switch tells the Axe to listen to a momentary command - press it down it's on, let go it's off.

a conflicting message is telling it at the same time to listen to a command where the switch is being held down for 2 seconds.

how can it listen to the momentary command (where you hold the switch down to turn an effect on as long as you're holding) but also listen for holding the switch down for 2 seconds? the Control Switch momentary supercedes the 2 second Hold function.

but since there's that hold function, the Control Switch never sends its "i'm holding it down, turn on the effect" message because the switch is also trying to wait for 2 seconds.

it's a conflict.

can you confirm that earlier you said you just have the tap function on the switch, but there actually is a Hold function as shown in the above picture? if that is the case, this isn't a bug, but just 2 incompatible settings on the same switch.

if you remove that Hold function, the Control Switch will immediately work.

the confusion might be this:

in your Per-Preset switches setup, you maybe didn't assign a Hold function on any of the PP#s.

however, on the Switch itself, there IS a Hold function assigned as shown in the picture.

to use a PP# Hold function, you need to define it in PP# and also assign it to the switch itself. in this case, you assigned a Hold function to the switch itself, but just happened to not assign the underlying placehold'd function in the PP# area. the Switch still thinks it has a Hold function, as shown in the picture - it just wouldn't do anything in this situation.

so remove the Hold function from the switch itself, and it will work. assigning a Hold function in the PP# area doesn't also assign it to the Switch itself by just giving the Tap function a job. the Hold function separately has to be assigned as well. this situation is a bit of the opposite where you did assign a Hold function on the Switch itself, and that supersedes Hold functions not being assigned on the PP# area.

Yes sorry for sending the wrong information on that switch.
But the point is that even if I put the hold function on the right Per-Preset number, the momentary Control Switch still doesn't work, it only works if I leave the category unassigned and from what I understand if that category was set to be a Per -Preset this switch should be controlled by what I set in the hold definition of my PP # 5 in this case.
I hope I'm being clear
 

Zéx

Member
He has it set to timeout: 2 seconds.


Can you try to configure it again, please? If it's still not working, store the preset and upload it again. I want to be positive I'm working with the exact same configuration parameters as you.
Thanks "Bryant",here are the files.
 

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chris

Legend!
from what I understand if that category was set to be a Per -Preset this switch should be controlled by what I set in the hold definition of my PP # 5 in this case.
this is not the case.

there are 2 places you change to make a PP# work.

first you assign the Function of the PP# on the PP page. then you assign the Switch itself.

if you assign a Tap and Hold function on the PP page for PP#15, then you assign only the Tap function to PP#15, the Hold function is NOT automatically assigned. only the tap is.

this is the part that is causing confusion.

you'd need to also assign the Switch Hold function to the PP# that you want, and it doesn't have to be the same PP#.

but regardless of that, on the Switch setup itself for Switch 5, you have a Hold function set. it doesn't matter what it's set to - there's a Hold function there.

clear the Hold function on Switch 5 itself and it will work. you've assigned a Hold function to Switch 5, and the fact that PP#1's Hold is blank does not "clear" the Switch itself. it's still trying to perform the Hold function as assigned.
 

Zéx

Member
clear the Hold function on Switch 5 itself and it will work. you've assigned a Hold function to Switch 5, and the fact that PP#1's Hold is blank does not "clear" the Switch itself. it's still trying to perform the Hold function as assigned
But Chris is exactly that behavior that I am treating as a bug.
If the function of a global switch has to be determined from a PP # determined by a preset and in this PP # it is configured to have no action, that switch must follow this determination.
Is this the behavior you are questioning or am I not understanding you?
 

chris

Legend!
But Chris is exactly that behavior that I am treating as a bug.
If the function of a global switch has to be determined from a PP # determined by a preset and in this PP # it is configured to have no action, that switch must follow this determination.
Is this the behavior you are questioning or am I not understanding you?
the PP# may not have an action, but the switch itself does. PP#s are an exception to the "not assigned" rule. exceptions work differently than normal. something is assigned on the switch itself.

maybe you're saying that's a bug if the Hold function assigned points to a PP# with no function assigned. but to me, i still see the Switch trying to do its Hold function. this would be something for @BryantP to comment on. i don't see it as a bug, but an exception.

with the current design, the reason it's not working is due to having a Hold function assigned on the switch itself.

have you cleared the Hold function from the switch itself? does it work when you clear it? please try and answer that so we can clear up the current behavior. it's why Bryant and I didn't experience the bug - we didn't have a Hold function on the switch at all.
 

Zéx

Member
the PP# may not have an action, but the switch itself does. PP#s are an exception to the "not assigned" rule. exceptions work differently than normal. something is assigned on the switch itself.

maybe you're saying that's a bug if the Hold function assigned points to a PP# with no function assigned. but to me, i still see the Switch trying to do its Hold function. this would be something for @BryantP to comment on. i don't see it as a bug, but an exception.

with the current design, the reason it's not working is due to having a Hold function assigned on the switch itself
I understand your point now, you see it as being designed to react like that.

Looking at it this way it would be better for the Per-Preset Hold function to react to what was programmed in PP #, because that way it ends up preventing the use of this momentary function, and I think it also makes more sense for the Per-Preset category. But I may not be seeing the downside in wanting this to be so.
have you cleared the Hold function from the switch itself? does it work when you clear it? please try and answer that so we can clear up the current behavior. it's why Bryant and I didn't experience the bug - we didn't have a Hold function on the switch at all.

Sorry about that. Yes, I cleared the Hold function and it worked again.
 

chris

Legend!
I understand your point now, you see it as being designed to react like that.

Looking at it this way it would be better for the Per-Preset Hold function to react to what was programmed in PP #, because that way it ends up preventing the use of this momentary function, and I think it also makes more sense for the Per-Preset category. But I may not be seeing the downside in wanting this to be so.


Sorry about that. Yes, I cleared the Hold function and it worked again.
ok good. it's always best to clear the "bug" report first, then move on to opinion on how things should/could work.

we can now disregard bug searching. it took me about an hour to analyze and diagnose and took time for others to do too. glad it's solved thumbs
 
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