Control Suggestion

[sirus1987]

Let me start by saying that I dont own an FC 6 or 12 because, as many people have expressed, it lacks enough buttons to control everything *I* would want from a single layout so I vowed to never buy one. I've personally been super vocal about this because I was such a fan on the MFC design where everything was right there in front of you and you didnt need to really tap dance to do everything you needed like have youre scenes laid out across the bottom 5 switches and then have all your effects on the 10 switches above, and still have an up and down on the right, reveal, and two switches at the very top for tuner and tap functions. It was perfect, aside from ability to change layouts pre-preset.

So I dont know if this exists, and if it does please correct me, but I think a fair compromise from not having more than 12 physical switches and to get more out of each layout that only allows for 12 functions, there should be additional virtual lines per layout and the two far right (or left if you prefer) are line up and down switches so you can scroll to the other lines, access more functions, and not have to change layouts.

So for instance, if I want to be able to access 5 scenes/amp channels and 10-15 effects on the same layout, I could have the bottom 5 switches be scenes, then lines 2,3, & 4 be effects, and all I would have to do to reach those effects would be to hit the same switch 1 or 2 times. This would minimize navigation to different menus and be much more conducive to ease in a live setting.

Feedback/thoughts?

 

[atquinn]

Let me start by saying that I dont own an FC 6 or 12 because, as many people have expressed, it lacks enough buttons to control everything you would want from a single layout so I vowed to never buy one. I've personally been super vocal about this because I was such a fan on the MFC design where everything was right there in front of you and you didnt need to really tap dance to do everything you needed like have youre scenes laid out across the bottom 5 switches and then have all your effects on the 10 switches above, and still have an up and down on the right, reveal, and two switches at the very top for tuner and tap functions. It was perfect, aside from ability to change layouts pre-preset.

So I dont know if this exists, and if it does please correct me, but I think a fair compromise from not having more than 12 physical switches and to get more out of each layout that only allows for 12 functions, there should be additional virtual lines per layout and the two far right (or left if you prefer) are line up and down switches so you can scroll to the other lines, access more functions, and not have to change layouts.

So for instance, if I want to be able to access 5 scenes/amp channels and 10-15 effects on the same layout, I could have the bottom 5 switches be scenes, then lines 2,3, & 4 be effects, and all I would have to do to reach those effects would be to hit the same switch 1 or 2 times. This would minimize navigation to different menus and be much more conducive to ease in a live setting.

Feedback/thoughts?

Read the manual! Watch a video!
What you're asking for is different layouts, which is already possible. It's just that, in your scenario, the layouts will share one line in common with another layout.

 

[NaturalScience]

Not to mention you can use the layout link option to load different layouts with any button press (including scene changes). I'm not sure I want to burn through all my layouts like this, but I'm playing with the idea of loading a different layout on each of Scenes 1-5. The bottom row of buttons would always give me access to the same scenes, but the top 6 would change to give me access to the effects I need in that particular scene.

The biggest downside I can think of is that the layout change is tied to a switch within the layout, so if you get to a new scene via another route, you're still stuck on the previous scene's layout until you tap dance a bit.

The remedy here would be per-scene wildcard effects the same way per-preset effects are already supported, but I'm not sure how hard that would be to implement.

 

[chris]

it lacks enough buttons to control everything *I* would want from a single layout

Fixed that for you.

to get more out of each layout that only allows for 12 functions

Each switch has a tap and hold function available, so that’s 24.

so you can scroll to the other lines, access more functions... all I would have to do to reach those effects would be to hit the same switch 1 or 2 times. This would minimize navigation

You’ve just described going to a different Layout by pressing a dedicated Layout switch, rather than going to the Master Layout Menu. Watch my video about the FC-12, Layout 7 & 8. You can set the same physical switch to cycle through Layouts in a set order you choose.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ook-default-layouts-ez-switch-editing.146617/

 

[iaresee]

Feedback/thoughts?

This functionally indistinguishable from changing layouts. If you'd like to think of layouts as "virtual extensions in physical space of the switching matrix" go for it. Whatever helps you fit it all into your head is A+.

If you think the MFC trumps the FC for immediate access to features, you should re-read the FC manual -- I can accomplish almost as much with my FC-6 as I ever did with my MFC-101 and MORE than my MFC-101 with an FC-12 from a single layout. Add in the fact that there's 8 layouts and the configurable MLM and there's no contest: the FCs are leaps and bounds more powerful than the MFC-101 ever was.

Let me start by saying that I dont own an FC 6 or 12 because, as many people have expressed, it lacks enough buttons to control everything you would want from a single layout so I vowed to never buy one.

We're all a-okay if you change your mind.

 

[unix-guy]

so I vowed to never buy one.

Just curious, why do you care at all then?

 

[rnjscooter]

Read the manual! Watch a video!
What you're asking for is different layouts, which is already possible. It's just that, in your scenario, the layouts will share one line in common with another layout.

Checkout my video for the FC-6. Nothing I cant do with it

 

[Hooligan]

Just curious, why do you care at all then?

Ssh! He wants to break his vows...

Besides, the thing he wanted already exists. What luck!

 

[chris]

he wants us to convince him to buy one. please begin doing that now.

 

[unix-guy]

he wants us to convince him to buy one. please begin doing that now.

He just needs to watch your video and one or two of the performance vids and he'll convince himself!

I'm only an hour in and my MFC is a distant memory!

So easy and flexible, and just plain smartly designed

 

[lqdsnddist]

There is always the option to chain several together......

Could do pretty cool stuff that way... have a controller with all the amp channels for each block on one FC, second FC could have 12 effects switches, toggle to a second page and have 12 more....

Add a Fc6 to the party.... dedicated looper controls always present

One can easily go layout to layout on the fly and back, but if you really want one button per control AND everything instantly accessible then multiple units is probably where it’s at.

What is the most that can be connected out of curiosity ?

I want to find like 4 buddies with FC and hook them all up, rock a 48 switch floor board for a few hours lol

 

[unix-guy]

There is always the option to chain several together......

Could do pretty cool stuff that way... have a controller with all the amp channels for each block on one FC, second FC could have 12 effects switches, toggle to a second page and have 12 more....

Add a Fc6 to the party.... dedicated looper controls always present

One can easily go layout to layout on the fly and back, but if you really want one button per control AND everything instantly accessible then multiple units is probably where it’s at.

What is the most that can be connected out of curiosity ?

I want to find like 4 buddies with FC and hook them all up, rock a 48 switch floor board for a few hours lol

4...

 

[bishop5150]

The FC-12 blows away the MFC. It’s not even close.

 

[unix-guy]

The FC-12 blows away the MFC. It’s not even close.

Agree 100%!

 

[sirus1987]

Fixed that for you.


Each switch has a tap and hold function available, so that’s 24.


You’ve just described going to a different Layout by pressing a dedicated Layout switch, rather than going to the Master Layout Menu. Watch my video about the FC-12, Layout 7 & 8. You can set the same physical switch to cycle through Layouts in a set order you choose.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ook-default-layouts-ez-switch-editing.146617/

That didnt really fix my statement, which has been echoed by many different people on this forum, facebook forums, and by friends. Some people are happy with the fact that they are smaller, many with myself included are not. Fractal knows this, which is why they addressed it on the FC page by saying that the FC's are perfect like 4 times including the very first word of the description and the very first phrase in the specs. "

• Two perfectly sized versions: FC-12 with 12 switches and FC-6 with 6.
  "

I'm inclined to disagree. It doesnt make a lot of sense for a new flagship model to get a controller that requires more work to do all the things the old one did. There were certainly some big progressions since the MFC, but there are also some regressions.

Im fully aware that there are different layouts, in fact I wrote this post seconds after watching your video about the FC-12 to it's end. I saw how you change the layouts with the one button that cycles through them all, but I am personally not a fan because you can only move in one direction and if you accidentally click the button again, you have to cycle through all the layouts again to get to the one you want. The changes that I am describing are functionally a bit better than what you described as they give the user a bit more control and room for error by being able to move incrementally by individual lines of button functions, and also having hard edges where one you hit the bottom or top line, an accidental, additional press of the button wont move the layout when you dont want it to. You did mention tap and hold functions which I think are good and effective in many situation, but also, many people like for a single button to do a single thing for the sake of simplicity.

This is all a programming change that I'm sure wouldnt be very difficult to make, which would effectively double your layouts. For instance, with the looper, you set the 2 extra buttons for a clean sound and lead sound, you had no room to click on or off additional effects which is pretty important to advanced looper users to be able to do. Fast changes on the fly are incredibly important, especially in a live setting.
Really, this is the core of my gripe with the FC. There are A LOT of people out there that like to have all their pedals and channel switching options right there in front of them, which is also ESSENTIAL with people that like to experiment a lot, and the FC just isnt as conducive to that as it could be.

There is the idea of chaining multiple units together, which I DO like if money was no object, but for most it is. I also dont want to have to deal with a power supply for each additional controller. I will say though, it would be optimal to have an FC-6 strictly for channel/scene switching and an FC-12 for everything else, for me personally.

I also dont understand the mentality of everyone here trying to immediately refute the idea whether than asking the question "could this improve the FC or not?" I did ask for feedback and opinions, but no one here considered how it would be different from current functionality.

Make no mistake, I DO want to buy an FC-12, but I cant bring myself to do it given limitations of a single layout which is strictly due to the number of individual switches. I will flat out admit that the the Axe FX line of processors is the single greatest innovation to the electric guitar since the electric guitar itself as it is a culmination of EVERY part of the signal chain proceeding the guitar. I dont know the scope of Fractal's vision, but it is on the path and should be it's goal to be the Wikipedia of guitar sound. PERIOD. The ultimate Axe FX would have EVERY amp and EVERY cabinet and EVERY effects pedal, although I will also admit that it can currently do most of that now.

 

[Tom Morris]

Buy two FC12's?

 

[unix-guy]

You still seem to be missing the fact that layouts can do what you're proposing.

In Chris's example, he purposely designed the layouts to move sequentially between 3 layouts with a single button. That is only a single example of what can be done.

Additionally, as was mentioned above, the FC-12 allows each button to have 2 functions... This means it has 12x2 actions on one layout. 24 > 17.

I really think you should take the time to do an in-depth read of the manual.

In any case, I'm not going to try to argue you into buying one. Do what you want... It's your life and your money

 

[iaresee]

I saw how you change the layouts with the one button that cycles through them all, but I am personally not a fan because you can only move in one direction and if you accidentally click the button again, you have to cycle through all the layouts again to get to the one you want.

Sooooo...program a button to go in the other direction too?

Everything you’ve described desiring is already there just using different words to describe it.

 

[chris]

you can only move in one direction and if you accidentally click the button again, you have to cycle through all the layouts again to get to the one you want.

add a button that goes the other way, or set the Hold function to go the other way.

If you want a controller that has 22 buttons, buy one that has that many buttons. If you want one that has 40, get one of those.

Not sure how your suggestion is any different than changing layouts - you’d still need back and forth buttons for your shifting idea, and honestly that sounds really complicated. I’m on Layout 1, but am I shifted up or down the virtual rows? Who knows. I don’t want to tap and go to the hard stop just to know I’m there. That wastes time on stage.

you set the 2 extra buttons for a clean sound and lead sound, you had no room to click on or off additional effects which is pretty important to advanced looper users to be able to do.

Counting Rec and Play, and the 2 Scenes I added, that’s only 4 out of 12 switches. You have 8 more switches on that layout to add whatever you want, plus Hold assignments. Thats 16 more things, which is a lot of room.

It sounds like you just want every single block and looper controls and other feature to have its own switch. That’s potentially 40-50 switches. That seems overwhelming.

If that’s what you want, as I said, buy a controller that has that many switches. Buy 4 FC-12s. That’s 48 switches.

There are A LOT of people out there that like to have all their pedals and channel switching options right there in front of them, which is also ESSENTIAL with people that like to experiment a lot, and the FC just isnt as conducive to that as it could be.

Then simply don’t buy it. *shrug*

Not sure what you want here. There are many controller options available.

I did ask for feedback and opinions, but no one here considered how it would be different from current functionality.

How would we have shown this?

 

[sirus1987]

Your preset didnt have 8 additional switches at all. There are 12 total. You had Scene 1, Scene 2, Erase, reverse, half speed, looper 1, record, play, once, tap tempo, tuner.

I apologize, that was 11 switches you had room for 1 more effect.

I really, really dont want to argue with anyone. So far, everyone here is failing to see the flaw in the design. It's still crazy to me, the fanboyism on this forum. It's why I hate coming to this forum now. Fractal is great and has created possibly the single best piece of guitar gear EVER. Everything they do isn't perfect. They created a less than perfect product. The fact that you refuse to admit that says worlds about you.