Continuous tone out for automatic backup switching (Radial SW8)?

HenryWard

New Member
I've been thinking a lot about rig redundancy lately, and have a specific Axe FX 3 functionality question: can the Axe be configured to output a continuous tone from any output that will remain continuous through scene and preset changes?

The Radial SW8 switching unit would allow easily switching between the outputs of two Axe FX 3 units, with the option to do so automatically when it stops receiving a reference tone (i.e. when the primary unit fails). The Axe 3 is more than capable of making the right tone, and it'd be easy to configure a synth block tone output on a spare output for every preset/scene in a live set. Unfortunately, changing presets interrupts the tone briefly, which I believe would trigger the failover (haven't tested since I don't have the Radial at the moment).

Is there any way to configure a continuous tone for a use case like this that will be durable across preset/scene changes? It'd be amazing to have a way to make a pair of Axe 3s instantly auto-redundant without anyone even needing to hit a button to switch. Thanks!
 
The SW8 was designed for playback systems. For redundancy, you will need more gear...For starters, you would also need a complete multiplex of all ins and outs audio and otherwise... I'm a believer in redundancy-but auto redundancy might be too much. To do just the Audio Outputs might cause more problems than it would solve.
 
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You might try with a delay in series with the synth block, if you place it in the same spot for every patch, spillover between presets should work fine
 
@ DLC86: thanks for the idea! I'll have to test that

@ skunc: I'm curious what problems you think would be created and what other thoughts you have. I'm aware that creating redundancy for the Axe FX units isn't complete redundancy for the entire audio chain of a band, but it's a necessary component in any case. The rack setup I had in mind was something like this:
  • Guitar ins to a Radial JX62 (to allow easy switching between guitars and PFL'd tuning of any with a rack tuner)
  • Single JX62 out to both Axe FX (since the JX62 has two parallel 1/4" outs per output)
  • Axe FXs configured identically (MIDI splits handled otherwise) with Output 1 for FOH and Output 2 for monitors
  • Those outputs made redundant with a Radial switching unit so only set of lines get sent to FOH and monitor desks
I could plan a Radial SW4 which is the more "instrument" focused version of the SW8, but given that the whole unit would be dedicated to just one guitar setup anyway, I don't see a reason why a SW8 wouldn't do the same thing with the added capability of an automatic failover instead of requiring a tech to push a button.

The above rig seems like it'd allow easy switching between redundant guitars and have full redundancy for the Axe FX units with immediate failover options and a built-in functional split between FOH and monitors using different Axe Fx outputs, all in one tidy rack. Am I missing something?
 
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What are you using to control the rig preset/scene?
Are you receiving anything into the rig other than guitar? Side chain? Midi?
Are you hardwired into the rig? RF?

I'm assuming that your production provides solid consistent clean power? Are you running a battery as well?
 
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The plan for this rig would be RJM Mastermind GT -> Ableton -> Axe Fx. Ableton would be handling click track, soft synths, instrument preset/scene changes and MIDI-controlled lighting. It's under-utilizing the GT to just use it as a song cue, I know, but I might also look at adding some direct-to-Axe FX backup capabilities there via MIDI merge too (so the Axe FXs would be fed primarily from Ableton but could receive direct from the Mastermind too).

The Radial SW8-USB looks perfect for the MIDI out and computer redundancy parts (for click/backing/etc. tracks as you say), but I'm currently Windows-based, so I'm looking into other alternatives there in the near to mid term. That's different, though, from the Axe FX redundancy.

This is frankly a bit theoretical (planning for a band I'd like to get off the ground once Covid clears) but I'm enjoying the time to put in the research to get it all exactly right.
 
I have a solution using an RDL electronic module to continuously monitor audio output to trigger a relay closure if the “presence tone” solution doesn’t work out for you.
 
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MasterMind are Ableton are great choices.

I highly recommend building bypass loops for MIDI IN @ the rig. This will help with rehearsal workflow/programming and certain audible situations.
A MIDI data signal light at either end of the Gtr rig midi signal chain.
Individual ports for individual operations at the computer breakout, guitars, drums, lights...
Are the show computers redundant with auto switching and backup power? (I do understand that if the main power goes that everything will lose power-but for at least 20mins+ or so the rigs or computers won't crash making a complete reboot necessary. You easily have enough time to power down each rig if necessary.

My experience with the FAS gear has been outstanding robust performance. Since 2012 (and approximately 50 AxeFx units and 20 controllers ) the "failures" have been 99% human error or Act of God. They were corrected with a power cycle.
 
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