Considering buying Axe, selling kemper; a few questions

C

Captain

Member
Hi all,

I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right place. Feel free to move the thread.

Well, long story short... I have been using a kemper for quite a time now. While it's great, I'm not totally happy with the accuracy of profiling. I hope this does not turn into an Axe vs Kemper war either, in some ad hominem sense. But I will offer my short evaluation so that you understand what I am looking for.

I've done tests and results seem consistent: kemper gets in the ballpark but there's always the same "signature KPA tone". There are dips in certain low frequencies, boosts in others, which creates a "garbled" feel for low riffs; then there are some weird peaks in the highs, raspy feel... tendency towards "wah"-like frequencies... And when this happens, which is much of the time, there's not much you can do, really, other than EQ matching in DAW your recorded tone to the real amp to get closer. At least I have not found another "solution". And I don't wanna have to go that far. Don't get me wrong, differences are not "Big" -- but they are there. To some they matter, to others they do not.
That is perfectly fine and I have absolutely no problem with people who are happy with this. B

ut when I compare S gear 2 with "best" Kemper profiles and Kemper feels "congested", then profile a marshall plexi, also s gear, make comparison and it's all the same stuff... I begin feeling skeptical in terms of keeping the kemper. Amps are rather similar to begin with, and for this reason kemper's profiling needs to be more accurate imho for this approach to make sense for me. Otherwise you end up with many tones that share too much of the same characteristics -- even if these are subtle.

So I'm considering my options. I know torpedo plus real amp is great, has been the best option for me. But it's not as convenient as Axe Fx and convenience matters a lot of to me now. And let me just say that I have zero interest in being some Axe Fx "fanboi" either (I am sure there are some here too, like Kemper forum, like elsewhere, as it always happens). I care about what works for me. And I've worked in the the music industry too -- amp mods. I am not totally clueless when it comes to tone. Just looking for the right tool for my own music, creative process.

I have also profiled an Axe fx btw and got many of the same results. There is more variety from amp sim to amp sim in axe than there is in kemper. I also think the feel of axe tends to be less "congested" and the pick attack feels better somehow. The one weakness of Axe fx for me has been the built in cab sims. That is where I think kemper does better. But it's not because of the "magic voodoo" technology involved with KPA imho... Just has to do with cabs of great profiles vs what comes in stock with Axe.

When it comes to amp simulation, I seem to prefer the Axe. I have had time with the Axe Fx 2 unit when borrowing from a friend to test out. And anything I can get ouf of kemper I was able to get with Axe, too, just with some more work on the cab side (I have made IRs out of some kemper amps as well as real cabs). It takes more work there for me to get where I want to, but at the end I seem to be happier with the tone because of the quality of the amp sims. At least this is my evaluation up to now. I don't have access to Axe Fx anymore to test further as friend moved to other country.

Also Axe Fx 2 is quite expensive here. I am not sure if Axe 8 would be good enough provided that it lacks tone matching, which can be important to me. So I'm weighing my options and seeing what I can do :) Questions are: especially previous kemper users, do you feel happy with using cab IRs with axe? Is there something about Axe Fx that you feel is lacking? And where is the best place to find used Axe Fx in EU? And in the case of "wah like frequencies", do you feel like you can dial these out using axe fx? Kemper offers a few EQs but they don't really work that well on that end.

Thank you
 
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Welcome to the forum. I have no Kemper experience but I'm sure others will respond. The only time I've played with a Kemper I was blown away by the lack of eq tools compared to the Axe. There are so many easy ways to dial frequencies. The trick for me is all in the IR. Hi cut, low cut, blending, etc.
 
I have used both Kemper and Axe FX. I sold an Axe FX Mark 2 and went the Kemper route as I was growing frustrated with tweaking my Axe. However, after using the Kemper for a few years, I became intrigued by the newer Axe FX 2 XL and picked up a used one. The Axe FX 2 XL has superior effects and eq due to more parameters available. I still like my Kemper and still use it. I like the availability of profiles. The effects in the Kemper are improving but have a way to go before catching up to the Axe FX. I do not have much experience with cab IR's as I am a home enthusiast and play through headphones primarily. I don't think you will be disappointed with the Axe FX, just give yourself time to learn/adjust to it as there are quite a lot of parameters that can be modified to get the tone you are looking for. That was my issue the first time around with the Axe FX, I don't feel that I gave myself enough time to climb the learning curve.
 
Captain said:
I know torpedo plus real amp is great, has been the best option for me.
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I used to own a Torpedo Live and I can confidently tell you that if you think the Torpedo Live + real amp is best the option, the Axe FX will make you very happy. As you know, one of the strongest features on the Torpedo Live is the ability to use cabinet IRs with a real amp in realtime. The Axe FX is the closest thing you'll get in the digital world of having a real tube amp sitting in front of you. The tube amps are BUILT component by component digitally so you get a very accurate reproduction, whereas with the Kemper, you're at the mercy of human error in the profiling process. The accurate emulation of over 200+ amps and amp channels -- which has consistently getting better with every update -- plus the ability to use any of the thousands of superb cabinet IRs and mixing them with Fractal's CabLab to create your own custom IR is just tough to beat.
 
It's not even only "human error" imho, also inaccurate profiling. It's just not as accurate as people claim, imho. 20 plus amps profiled, with EQs in between things, even ozone in the middle, god knows how many DI tests... that can be my only conclusion. Have to try and fool the device to get closer, and even then I am not happy enough.

Whether they improve it or not, I don't know. Usually the argument on kemper side of things is "if the audience doesn't care why do you care"..

But I think what it comes down to for me is the ability to tweak details. Nuances matter to me. Details matter. I think I need to get an axe in to test further, but cannot find anyone nearby with one.

Paperjace said:
I used to own a Torpedo Live and I can confidently tell you that if you think the Torpedo Live + real amp is best the option, the Axe FX will make you very happy. As you know, one of the strongest features on the Torpedo Live is the ability to use cabinet IRs with a real amp in realtime. The Axe FX is the closest thing you'll get in the digital world of having a real tube amp sitting in front of you. The tube amps are BUILT component by component digitally so you get a very accurate reproduction, whereas with the Kemper, you're at the mercy of human error in the profiling process. The accurate emulation of over 200+ amps and amp channels -- which has consistently getting better with every update -- plus the ability to use any of the thousands of superb cabinet IRs and mixing them with Fractal's CabLab to create your own custom IR is just tough to beat.
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deakle said:
I don't think you will be disappointed with the Axe FX, just give yourself time to learn/adjust to it as there are quite a lot of parameters that can be modified to get the tone you are looking for. That was my issue the first time around with the Axe FX, I don't feel that I gave myself enough time to climb the learning curve.
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Thanks for the reply. That's the thing; that I feel that even though kemper comes very close to real amps there's some area there where it's all the same characteristics -- and when I want to change these, I cannot, simply put. I like that axe offers all these detailed choices. I understand how they can be a headache, but considering how much time I have put in profiling amps, I don't think this will be that time consuming tbh.
 
In European law it is mandatory to offer at least 14 day cooling off/returns .... and G66.eu (EU distributors) are very good to deal with in any case. 3 year warranty too by default.
 
What country are you in? I might consider trading my AxeFX XL for a Kemper if you were interested? I have another AxeFX and an AX8, so I'm not abandoning fractal or anything!
 
I am surprised you can hear differences between the kemper and the reference amp. As many demos as I heard, I really couldn't hear it. I get that it could be a feel thing...

Also, by listening to tons of demos and stuff, my conclusion is - between Axe FX, kemper, Amplifire, BIAS head and the real amp - none of of them sound any better than the other. They may all sound kinda different, more or less accurate to the real deal, but they all sound great and it's all up to taste at this point.
Though, if you aim to get a 100% tube head sound, why not just use a real tube head?...
 
I am not too surprised people haven't heard the differences much in the sense that I do not think many demos do a good job of showing how close kemper is to amp in an objective manner. I think 1) you need to run a DI 2) include a variety of different playing 3) have enough experience refining to get as close as you can to the amp to begin with.

If you do all that I think it clearly shows, in most cases, there being differences. Now how important these differences are it's an individual matter. For me the differences tend to be quite consistent and tend to homogenize tones. Axe Fx wll not be 100 percent the same as any source tone either, but from what I have experienced with the unit there is more variety between the amp sims when you compare them against each other, which matters to me. And small tonal nuances tend to be way bigger ones in feel as well.

This is part of why I am considering Axe. I feel more character from each amp sim compared to kemper. I can also copy kemper profiles very well with Bias and also Axe fx. They all sound "good" yes. Also, I have some great tube heads as well, but current living conditions don't allow for recording at loud volumes. And I don't have my amps all in the same country, either, so having a single unit that can do the tones I want would be a great solution. If Axe does this fine enough, which in my testing I was pleasantly surprised at the results, considering all the Axe bashing I've seen elsewhere, I would prefer it over the amp + torpedo route. The effects are not as important but are definitely welcome.

For me the negatives of bias is, well, that it's software and I'm not a big fan of using the Bias Head. But yes I agree with you many solutions are great. Like I said, I'm happy for people who are happy with kemper. But I do think extensive testing is quite revealing as well, enough for me to look at different solutions :)

Cheerios

FreeMind said:
I am surprised you can hear differences between the kemper and the reference amp. As many demos as I heard, I really couldn't hear it. I get that it could be a feel thing...

Also, by listening to tons of demos and stuff, my conclusion is - between Axe FX, kemper, Amplifire, BIAS head and the real amp - none of of them sound any better than the other. They may all sound kinda different, more or less accurate to the real deal, but they all sound great and it's all up to taste at this point.
Though, if you aim to get a 100% tube head sound, why not just use a real tube head?...
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Politics aside.

The level of enjoyment is directly proportional to:
1. Your sense of discernment (how pick you are about your tone.) You seem very concerned with that!
2. Your level of expertise with the inner guts of the Axe FX II (or in general on tone creation.)

The second one can't be stated enough, as there are so many folks who run into initial issues, and after plenty of reading the wiki/manual, watching videos, and a search on this board for similar problems already solved, they find out just how great this is for finding YOUR sound. But there will be some pain.

Good luck and look forward to hearing your review when you get one.

R
 
i've no experience with the KPA but it sounds to me like you already have your mind made up. there's enough IR's from various people; Fractal, ML Sound Lab, Ownhammer, Cab.eu and forum freebie's that you'll find what you're looking for. I hear what you're saying regarding the kemper "signature" and imho i feel each maker of ir's has their own thing going on too. i don't hear that going on with the axefx though.
 
Thank you for the reply. I know about amplifiers so the component-level modelling of axe fx interests me. I will probably love it to delve deeper than already have with my friends' Axe. I didn't have it enough time to do a proper review, but I did tone match my amp and compared vs kemper profile of that amp, among other things. I was surprised at how good the Axe's "tone matching" is. But again that's probably due to me hearing so many bad things about axe fx over the years on some other "forums". When I first tried an Axe i was expecting to be rather underwhelmed, but the opposite happened.

Cheerios

electronpirate said:
Politics aside.

The level of enjoyment is directly proportional to:
1. Your sense of discernment (how pick you are about your tone.) You seem very concerned with that!
2. Your level of expertise with the inner guts of the Axe FX II (or in general on tone creation.)

The second one can't be stated enough, as there are so many folks who run into initial issues, and after plenty of reading the wiki/manual, watching videos, and a search on this board for similar problems already solved, they find out just how great this is for finding YOUR sound. But there will be some pain.

Good luck and look forward to hearing your review when you get one.

R
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OP could it be something outside of the KPA that's causing everything to sound homogenous? Your monitors/headphones perhaps? I'm sure you are familiar with the sound of your gear, but reports of the Kemper seem to be consistently good so it's worth considering whether something else could be the culprit.
 
deakle said:
I have used both Kemper and Axe FX. I sold an Axe FX Mark 2 and went the Kemper route as I was growing frustrated with tweaking my Axe. However, after using the Kemper for a few years, I became intrigued by the newer Axe FX 2 XL and picked up a used one. The Axe FX 2 XL has superior effects and eq due to more parameters available. I still like my Kemper and still use it. I like the availability of profiles. The effects in the Kemper are improving but have a way to go before catching up to the Axe FX. I do not have much experience with cab IR's as I am a home enthusiast and play through headphones primarily. I don't think you will be disappointed with the Axe FX, just give yourself time to learn/adjust to it as there are quite a lot of parameters that can be modified to get the tone you are looking for. That was my issue the first time around with the Axe FX, I don't feel that I gave myself enough time to climb the learning curve.
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the XL is not superior in those ways to the Mark II. it just has more memory....no extra parameters or superior eqs.
 
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