Compressor not as good as it could be

frankencat

Inspired
First off I love my FM3 and i have gotten a lot of enjoyment from it but one thing i am not satisfied with is the Compressor block. I am a certified Compressor pedal junkie and I just can’t get anything that sounds and reacts like my pedals. My goto currently is a Keeley Comp Plus and I have a few others that I like, Wampler Ego, Boss modded cs3, a couple of others. I really liked the compressor module in the Kemper and I could dial in that thing where you get some parallel squish but it doesn’t mess with your signal or tone, very transparent. With the FM3 the comp seems heavy and in the way even with the mix at 50%, it’s noisy too. Right now I am probably going to use one of my comp pedals in front, that seems to get me what I want. The thing is, it seems like this could be so much better since the other effects are pretty great….well maybe not the drive pedals, they are kind of meh as well. Sorry but I want all of this to be 100% amazing, I am already a fan and i am not bashing so please take this as constructive criticism. I am willing to try something different from what I have been doing and I welcome suggestions. Thanks -Frank
 
First off I love my FM3 and i have gotten a lot of enjoyment from it but one thing i am not satisfied with is the Compressor block. I am a certified Compressor pedal junkie and I just can’t get anything that sounds and reacts like my pedals. My goto currently is a Keeley Comp Plus and I have a few others that I like, Wampler Ego, Boss modded cs3, a couple of others. I really liked the compressor module in the Kemper and I could dial in that thing where you get some parallel squish but it doesn’t mess with your signal or tone, very transparent. With the FM3 the comp seems heavy and in the way even with the mix at 50%, it’s noisy too. Right now I am probably going to use one of my comp pedals in front, that seems to get me what I want. The thing is, it seems like this could be so much better since the other effects are pretty great….well maybe not the drive pedals, they are kind of meh as well. Sorry but I want all of this to be 100% amazing, I am already a fan and i am not bashing so please take this as constructive criticism. I am willing to try something different from what I have been doing and I welcome suggestions. Thanks -Frank
Try the FET compressor if you haven't. Noice!
 
I have several times shared on the internet how the DigiTech GSP-2101 could have a glorious compressor sound (for certain styles) with an old setup I had (some other players confirmed this). At the time I was even less knowledgeable about compressors than I am now, but that unit made me finally realize the potential of this effect.

Even at a ratio of just ±2.7:1 (IIRC), I could get a magical and musical "pop" and "slap" out of it, even when just very mildly pulling a string (w pick or finger). IOW, it was not a "cheap" 8:1 kinda sound, AFAIK. When I had that sound, all I wished to do was to play muted notes or skank in some band all night — every night.

I later realized or learned that the GSP 2101 had an analog compressor, so I started theorizing this might be for good reason, and for sounds a digital one can't get? Have you been able to get all you want from some other digital compressors...?

Even the old Axe algorithms seem fine for many types of compression, and I have yet to try the newer ones (I will when the FM9 update comes out). I may also have to experiment with amp settings like Thump maybe... Parameters that change the feel.

I recently almost wanted to get a $200 old GSP to get that sound back — cheaper than a pedal nowadays.

If I can't find it back, I may have to try tons of pedals. I only have the Barber Tone Press, ATM.

Of course, I used to have this sound playing through real cabs, while the Axe has me playing on FRFR usually. I can still try with the same guitar and cabs, but not the Marshall 8008 or GSP anymore. Maybe I simply used fresher strings back in the day... ;)
--

After all drive improvements, you seem the only one that is going "meh," so I guess you are either very, very experienced or should ask if you are doing something wrong?
I can't help here (not a drive expert either) ...
 
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I have several times shared on the internet how the DigiTech GSP-2101 could have a glorious compressor sound.
It was one of my first rack processors back in the early 90's. Loved how saturated and liquid a lead tone could get. Have you found anything in the FM3 that replicates such a saturation?
 
The optical comp is my jam

Yes! Optical comp with LED is what I'm using right now too. I tried to dial it in like my Diamond Comp and it's pretty good!

But like the OP - it seems to be hard to get it 100% like the analog hardware versions, for whatever reason. On the other hand, I can simply put my actual diamond compressor in front too. I'm interested to see what suggestions are made in this thread.
 
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It was one of my first rack processors back in the early 90's. Loved how saturated and liquid a lead tone could get. Have you found anything in the FM3 that replicates such a saturation?
I have an FM9 since a short while, but haven't started playing it yet. First reading up after a long absence and waiting for the update.

Re. what you have experienced, I don't think I would generally remember it like that, but I was even less knowledgeable back then and didn't often play it at gigging volume.

I think the most liquid one was the Grunge amp? It sounded a little artificial by itself (didn't use the tube), but sounded great in a mix.

For a long time I was disappointed in lead tones that used the tube, but at that time I was less aware about using low and high cuts. Eventually, using high cuts one day, it made one of the tube amp sounds pretty great for leads. It gave me hope that every sound was in there, if you only knew how... Mine sounded a touch thin as I didn't know how to optimize the cuts, but was very fun to play, and I would consider that one pretty liquid. I remember it most as being fun for playing Lynyrd Skynyrd style solos.
Another sound I enjoyed was when I got the extra CPU. One of the new presets had the tube amp sound like Toto — probably because it had Detuning on it.

I consider everything from the Axe-Fx II and onward far superior though. Probably even the Ultra. I've heard many gorgeous LA style leads (that I craved) from others in the Ultra days.
 
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GSP-2101... Got a gold LE version sitting in front of me in my rack. I remember playing the regular version through the power amp in on a 5150 head back in the day at my local music store. Man, what a great clean tone it has. Didn't know about the analog compressor deal, nice to know!
 
Didn't know about the analog compressor deal, nice to know!
Just doublechecked and it lists three analog components (comp/EQ/tube):
www.tube-tester.com/sites/gsp2101/sites/gsp2101main.htm
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My setup was: cheap Sambora strat => GSP 2101 (some detuned clean, comp ±2.8:1) => Marshall 8008 => 2x Boogie 1x12 (closed back)
The compressor ratio was not too obvious and mostly worked when I wanted it to: slamming a chord, skank, pulling a string. It might be nothing special to anyone familiar with other analog comps, but for pulling strings I've never gotten close with anything else yet...
 
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Post clips of what you liked from the GSP2101. It’s unlikely it’s the compressors that need any work. There are enough options to cover a massive range of compressor scenarios and they’re all well implemented at this point.
My clips are hidden on 25-year-old cassette tapes, but I hope to come across them someday...
I doubt you would hear much of it in the sound — maybe in the slight lower strings pulling that was most fun. IOW, you may not hear how special it was. I think it was also a combo of my gear, regular cabs, volume, ... — an "in the room" experience, as if the compressor was tweaked exactly for my hands and gear.

The Axe can easily do it for slamming chords and skank — the string pulling sounds remains to be seen and I will try later, as I have never tried with the updated algorithms.

OTOH, you do have to wonder why the GSP has an analog compressor? I would think it's either because they know it will be better, or because they know they are not able to write great digital code for it? Or maybe to relieve the CPU.

I don't know if analog EQ tends to be better as well. It kinda seems they chose the 3 analog sections wisely. A tube (or two) at high voltage, compressor, and EQ. I thought the thing had plenty CPU to include digital compression (although I don't know if it would take a lot CPU?), but they didn't.

Also, around Axe-Fx II, fw4 is when Cliff discovered more hints about how to add feel, IIRC. There were one or more firmwares that added an increased sense which he later removed. Maybe if that was added again as a parameter, it could help for what I experienced. Maybe that has become the Thump, etc. Too early to request. Will first see if I can get it with the new gen.
 
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I doubt you would hear much of it in the sound
We can't help you with things you can't hear. But if you can recreate it in a clip I'm pretty confident we can help you match the compressor characteristics you liked about the compressor on the 2101.

If there was a factory preset you liked, name it? Maybe someone with an old 2101 will post some clips for you?

OTOH, you do have to wonder why the GSP has an analog compressor? I

Not really. It was beyond the capacity of the DSP at the time to do it all well all at once. So offloading to analog circuits is what you did. We don't suffer those limitations anymore.

I don't know if analog EQ tends to be better as well.
It's not. If anything it's worse. Component drift really has a big impact on analog EQ. In expensive EQ units one of the things you're paying for is them tossing out a lot of components that aren't within the tight tolerances they need to make units with precise and repeatable performance from unit to unit. No such issues exist in the digital world.
 
First off I love my FM3 and i have gotten a lot of enjoyment from it but one thing i am not satisfied with is the Compressor block. I am a certified Compressor pedal junkie and I just can’t get anything that sounds and reacts like my pedals. My goto currently is a Keeley Comp Plus and I have a few others that I like, Wampler Ego, Boss modded cs3, a couple of others. I really liked the compressor module in the Kemper and I could dial in that thing where you get some parallel squish but it doesn’t mess with your signal or tone, very transparent. With the FM3 the comp seems heavy and in the way even with the mix at 50%, it’s noisy too. Right now I am probably going to use one of my comp pedals in front, that seems to get me what I want. The thing is, it seems like this could be so much better since the other effects are pretty great….well maybe not the drive pedals, they are kind of meh as well. Sorry but I want all of this to be 100% amazing, I am already a fan and i am not bashing so please take this as constructive criticism. I am willing to try something different from what I have been doing and I welcome suggestions. Thanks -Frank
Put your compressor block in the loop and reamp some passages that show the compressor characteristics you like. The compressors are pretty "there" in the firmware, but it can take some work to match simpler pedals where the designer has made a bunch of decisions for you already and only exposed a few parameters you can change. Some clean guitar waveforms can reveal a lot about what you need to do to match a compressor pedal you like.

Might be the compressor algorithms need another variant, but let's see and hear what you like for compressors first before we get to that conclusion.
 
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We can't help you with things you can't hear.
I meant that literally: you = you (or other people).
Meaning: some things just don't translate to a tape recording. It's a total experience that I in theory should be able to recreate with the Axe and my real cabs. Seeing I haven't tried the new gen yet, I have new hope. Before you helped with the Ross, it was also claimed compressors were not lacking, AFAIK.

Also, if you heard the tape and I would tell you I had those gorgeous slaps by even just slightly pulling strings, you might suggest, "Put ratio to 8:1", and I'd have to say, "No, I'm getting this at 2.7:1 — the difference shouldn't be that much. I don't want an 8:1 feel." IOW, that may be a clue where a lack or a difference may still lie — you can't judge it just on sound.

If there was a factory preset you liked, name it? Maybe someone with an old 2101 will post some clips for you?
Only the compressor setting mattered. I remember that was probably just 2:7:1 or 2:8:1 (somewhere between 2.1 and 3.1). This ratio seemed exactly right. Forgot about other parameters and if I touched them. I did get most of the effect at good bedroom volume, but rehearsal was of course even better.

Anyway, I'm not requesting anything before I've tried more. The new algorithms and your claim digital can completely do it give me new hope. I've also concluded you can't have everything, or I can have it buying a $200 second hand one again, or try other pedals.
 
I have a Strymon Compadre. Some days its cool some days its not. Thats compression.
Your memories of the 80's and using your old compressor are really memories... how you felt that day.
I also owned the Diamond Compressor which is a magical piece of gear, I'd take a diamond compressor over a dumble.

Empirical Labs Fatso is a good one too I owned. I wouldn't expect fractal to emulate certain analog ... vibes.
 
The comp in the Kemper is amazing. My goto pedal comps are Keeley Comp+, Freidman Sir-Compre, and an old Boss CS-3 with the Allums Opto mod. I use the comp first in the chain before dirt and my main tones are slightly gritty SRV style to some harder rock stuff. I like a light spanky sustain with a slight boost. I don't know what the ratios and releases etc are for those pedals and I no longer have a Kemper. I can get a usable sound from the FM3 but it is not feeling as good as the other stuff and I find I need to set the ratio high to approximate the feel I like.
 
Your memories of the 80's and using your old compressor are really memories... how you felt that day.
Not for me. I had it every time and the difference was way too big to be a day-to-day thing.
I think I only sold it around 2005.
It is probably the most fun sound I've ever had and the main one I'm missing.

Even if an Axe can technically match it, I still suspect it's a (for me) magical combination of all that specific gear.

But hey, in a few weeks I may be back if I finally found it again :) In theory, I should be able to improve on it. Matrix amp instead of 8008, and Axe instead of GSP. Nothing close last time I tried on the Axe II though. I also blame that on not having complete knowledge, and again, on the sum of that specific gear. Sometimes you strike it lucky...
 
Here is one of my main patches. I use this with a Strat and Tele mainly. Cab is from Ownhammer but use whatever suits you.

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Edit: In this setup Out 2 goes to an amp fx loop in/return (Cat 100) and Out 1 to FOH.
 

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