Compensate Output 2 level

Just asked, others suggested me TS , not put a Balanced TRS jack in output 2/ unbalanced, iam not that smart with cable tech and matching sry
 
no need to apologize. i'm just curious what "bad" thing you may think will happen? maybe we can clear something up for you and everyone. :)
 
A little Info for you.

Balanced audio

When a phone connector is used to make a balanced connection, the two active conductors are both used for a monaural signal. The ring, used for the right channel in stereo systems, is used instead for the inverting input. This is a common use in small audio mixing desks, where space is a premium and they offer a more compact alternative to XLR connectors. Another advantage offered by TRS phone connectors used for balanced microphone inputs is that a standard unbalanced signal lead using a TS phone jack can simply be plugged into such an input. The ring (right channel) contact then makes contact with the plug body, correctly grounding the inverting input.

A disadvantage of using phone connectors for balanced audio connections is that the ground mates last and the socket grounds the plug tip and ring when inserting or disconnecting the plug. This causes bursts of hum, cracks and pops and may stress some outputs as they will be short circuited briefly, or longer if the plug is left half in.

This problem does not occur when using the 'gauge B' (BPO) phone connector (PO 316)[28] which although it is of 0.25 in (6.3 mm) diameter has a smaller tip and a recessed ring so that the ground contact of the socket never touches the tip or ring of the plug. This type was designed for balanced audio use, being the original telephone 'switchboard' connector and is still common in broadcast, telecommunications and many professional audio applications where it is vital that permanent circuits being monitored (bridged) are not interrupted by the insertion or removal of connectors. This same tapered shape used in the 'gauge B' (BPO) plug can be seen also in aviation and military applications on various diameters of jack connector including the PJ-068 and 'bantam' plugs. The more common straight-sided profile used in domestic and commercial applications and discussed in most of this article is known as 'gauge A'.

XLR connectors used in much professional audio equipment mate the ground signal on pin 1 first.

Unbalanced audio

Phone connectors with three conductors are also commonly used as unbalanced audio patch points (or insert points, or simply inserts), with the output on many mixers found on the tip (left channel) and the input on the ring (right channel). This is often expressed as "tip send, ring return". Other mixers have unbalanced insert points with "ring send, tip return". One advantage of this system is that the switch contact within the panel socket, originally designed for other purposes, can be used to close the circuit when the patch point is not in use. An advantage of the tip send patch point is that if it is used as an output only, a 2-conductor mono phone plug correctly grounds the input. In the same fashion, use of a "tip return" insert style allows a mono phone plug to bring an unbalanced signal directly into the circuit, though in this case the output must be robust enough to withstand being grounded. Combining send and return functions via single 1⁄4 in TRS connectors in this way is seen in very many professional and semi-professional audio mixing desks, due to the halving of space needed for insert jack fields which would otherwise need two jacks, one for send and one for return. The tradeoff is that unbalanced signals are more prone to buzz, hum and outside interference.

In some three-conductor TRS phone inserts, the concept is extended by using specially designed phone jacks that will accept a mono phone plug partly inserted to the first click and will then connect the tip to the signal path without breaking it. Most standard phone connectors can also be used in this way with varying success, but neither the switch contact nor the tip contact can be relied upon unless the internal contacts have been designed with extra strength for holding the plug tip in place. Even with stronger contacts, an accidental mechanical movement of the inserted plug can interrupt signal within the circuit. For maximum reliability, any usage involving first click or half-click positions will instead rewire the plug to short tip and ring together and then insert this modified plug all the way into the jack.

The TRS tip return, ring send unbalanced insert configuration is mostly found on older mixers. This allowed for the insert jack to serve as a standard-wired mono line input that would bypass the mic preamp. However tip send has become the generally accepted standard for mixer inserts since the early-to-mid 1990s. The TRS ring send configuration is still found on some compressor sidechain input jacks such as the dbx 166XL.

In some very compact equipment, 3.5 mm TRS phone connectors are used as patch points.

Some sound recording devices use a three-conductor phone connector as a mono microphone input, using the tip as the signal path and the ring to connect a standby switch on the microphone.
 
Iam not sure by myself, looking for the best way to connect the balanced outboard gear with the Axe-fx, have read a lot about connections at the moment, looks like the TS to XLR should work fine for output 2 but will be not the ultimate shielded way for a recording setup(get a better hum and noise rejection) it's also about Ground voltage differences between two pieces of gear or so, i also don't want to do any bad to my expensive preamp i've got now. On a page i've found this things (seems to also introduce the little TRS /xlr mod trick the studio guy suggested me to do)

"Interconnecting Balanced and Unbalanced Devices
These days, most equipment is designed so that balanced and unbalanced connections in a system can be mixed successfully, but different input and output circuits require different ways of making two wires out of three (or one wire out of two, if you don’t count the shield).
Connecting an unbalanced output to a balanced input is straightforward: Simply connect the low (inverting) side of the input to ground. This puts makes one side of the differential always zero volts. Subtracting zero from the signal on the hot input doesn’t affect it in a good or bad way.

Simple unbalanced-to-balanced wiring
This method of wiring between an unbalanced output and a balanced input has everything you need for a complete circuit, and you’ll get a signal to the balanced device. The problem with this method of connection, however, is that it has no common mode rejection. If a cable connecting two devices in this manner (or, for that matter, connecting two unbalanced devices) gets too close to the flashing neon BEER sign in the window of the bar directly behind the stage, you’ll probably have some buzz that you can’t eliminate easily.
If your unbalanced output and balanced input are on ¼” jacks, connecting them with a “guitar” (unbalanced) ¼”-to-¼” cable is the electrical equivalent of the aforementioned circuit. The tip of the plug makes contact with the tip terminal of the jack, as usual, while the ring terminal of the jack connects to the sleeve of the plug, which grounds the low side of the input. It’s convenient but still with no common mode rejection.
View attachment 21684


Better unbalanced-to-balanced wiring.
View attachment 21685

Here’s an alternative and better method of wiring between an unbalanced output and balanced input. By using two-conductor shielded cable, you are at least taking partial advantage of the noise-canceling characteristics of the differential amplifier at the balanced input. Such a connection can provide 20 to 30 dB of common mode rejection—not as good as the 60 dB or more that you’ll get with a balanced source but it’s better than nothing. The disadvantage is that cables wired this way are difficult if not impossible to find off the shelf. Nearly all premade XLR-TS or XLR-RCA cables, and even XLR adapters, are wired with single-conductor cable. For connections like this, you’ll nearly always have to make your own or modify a premade cable but that’s a good skill to develop.
The connecting cable should have the cold signal conductor of the cable tied to ground at the source-side only (the unbalanced end of the cable). The load-side of the cable will be connected in a typical balanced configuration."
 
Axe-Fx FXL block - Output 2 L unbalanced --- ( TS or TRS?? to XLR cable) --- Preamp Input XLR /Preamp Output XLR, In and Outs balanced. -- ( bal. XLR to TRS cable ) --Axe FX Input 2 balanced --- back to FXL block

I've read a lot now and i am get it to understand a bit, but still hanging.. TS would be fine. With a TRS it work anyhow too ( with a negative conductor/Ring in the unbalanced 1/4 Jack getting simple no signal, only the left side Tip/positive)

What when not do a Mod of the TRS Jack, do it break the Preamp Input in some way when it getting only the positive signal/Pin 2 and the negative/Pin 3 isn't conneceted to the ground/Pin1? (TRS Mod: should have the - signal conductor/Ring of the cable tied to ground/sleeve on the unbalanced end of the cable)
xlr_trs.jpg
 
Here's another approach:
Take an instrument cable. Plug one end into the Axe-Fx, plug the other end into your preamp. Call it a day.
 
Here's another approach:
Take an instrument cable. Plug one end into the Axe-Fx, plug the other end into your preamp. Call it a day.

Sorry Cliff but i will not shoot hot line level into the preamp front Inst. Input. Thx for the approach.
 
Last edited:
I'm very confused. But hopefully you get what you need out of it.
Me too man, i will have a chat with the guitar center studio guy again next days, i just hoped Cliff or other WHO have the pro tech knowledge simple can tell us if a TRS-XLR would be alright or kinda the wrong way for a connected balanced outboard gear to Axe-fx II output 2.
 
Last edited:
Your main concern seems to be about connecting an unbalanced output from the axe to your expensive preamp and the possible damage that it could cause right? If so then maybe some sort of isolating transformer box like a DI would make you happy, particularly if you're getting problems with ground loops and hum. Otherwise just figure out a way to use output 1 with your patches - swap output 1 and 2 in your signal chain and then you have a balanced output.
 
Your main concern seems to be about connecting an unbalanced output from the axe to your expensive preamp and the possible damage that it could cause right? If so then maybe some sort of isolating transformer box like a DI would make you happy, particularly if you're getting problems with ground loops and hum. Otherwise just figure out a way to use output 1 with your patches - swap output 1 and 2 in your signal chain and then you have a balanced output.
thanks, yes a DI box would be a idea too, also good idea with swap the output to 1, when i do this i'd have to monitor with output 2 then because i use the Axe as main interface, same asking, TS- XLR or TRS-XLR for balanced Monitor input? I had problems with noises if i gone through unbalanced cables before for monitoring that way
 
thanks, yes a DI box would be a idea too, also good idea with swap the output to 1, when i do this i'd have to monitor with output 2 then because i use the Axe as main interface, same asking, TS- XLR or TRS-XLR for balanced Monitor input? I had problems with noises if i gone through unbalanced cables before for monitoring that way

Output 2 is unbalanced.
 
Had a chat with a studio guy, take the TS-XLR cable (Sommer) at any event, it is the ideal way instead of TRS, without disturbing noise it work perfect. Thanks for trying to help here!
Cliff, Why Axe fx II's 1/4-inch connections don't support balanced TRS and unbalanced TS?!! My Wish for a Axe fx III, sometime.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom