Coming from Ares to Cygnus is a bit rough.

HarrySound

HarrySound

Power User
I understand that I’ll get used to it over time and perhaps be able to find solutions to my problems but the transition is really difficult.
I’m finding Cygnus to have much less definition and much more gain. One probably leads to the other but things are sounding a few steps away rather than in my face. I’m not getting the articulation perhaps because of the added gain.

For example I had a preset that was actually perfect (for me) it was a break up tone much like a Timmons tone. After years I finally felt like I had that present sparkle and chop from the plectrum but it seems to be underwhelming on Cygnus. In fact copying the settings exactly I have an overdrive tone, I have to turn the “input boost” down by 7db to come somewhat close.
I’m also finding there is less bass in Cygnus.

It makes a 5153 blue heavy tone easier to dial because of the added gain and less bass chug but when your expecting something to be there, even if your editing Some of it out your kinda thrown Off a little.

Any help or suggestions are welcome as obviously I haven’t been following the Axe Fx 3 developments.
 
Are you starting from a reset amp for the latest default settings? I don’t find the amps to have more gain or less definition personally. It may depend on the specific thing you’re going for though. It is, and should be, different.
 
Keep an eye on the master volume and the headroom level. I wouldn’t be surprised if the added gain you’re perceiving is from the MV being cranked up a bit. For high gain tones I keep the MV’s around 2.5 and anything with cleans or edge of breakup needs to be dialed in to taste, starting low and working your way up.
 
RevDrucifer said:
Keep an eye on the master volume and the headroom level. I wouldn’t be surprised if the added gain you’re perceiving is from the MV being cranked up a bit. For high gain tones I keep the MV’s around 2.5 and anything with cleans or edge of breakup needs to be dialed in to taste, starting low and working your way up.
Click to expand...
I actually haven’t touched the”Master Volume” of an amp model in about 6 years. I always completely ignore it because IMO it’s never given me better results than the default is set to.

I started having better results this morning working on some high gain lead tone I have in the axefx2. I made sure the channel was reset before building. I’ll test that last tonight with some headphone to see if it’s still got that in you faceness.
The break up tone is definitely going to take some extra work.

What’s going on with axe edit? It seems to keep hold of you last settings in an almost spooky kind of way. Few times I couldn’t figure out why there was no sound and it was because the block volume was defaulting to -59 ….very strange
 
HarrySound said:
I actually haven’t touched the”Master Volume” of an amp model in about 6 years. I always completely ignore it because IMO it’s never given me better results than the default is set to.

I started having better results this morning working on some high gain lead tone I have in the axefx2. I made sure the channel was reset before building. I’ll test that last tonight with some headphone to see if it’s still got that in you faceness.
The break up tone is definitely going to take some extra work.

What’s going on with axe edit? It seems to keep hold of you last settings in an almost spooky kind of way. Few times I couldn’t figure out why there was no sound and it was because the block volume was defaulting to -59 ….very strange
Click to expand...

You’re definitely going to want to play with the MV with Cygnus, man. There were a lot of changes in that area that completely changed the way I dial in presets from before. Cranking the MV up past 3 on a lot of the amps gets them distorting and compressing rather fast and while that might sound GREAT on a Plexi-type, it doesn’t fair so well with a high gain head like a 5150 or Dual Rec.

Just pick any preset/amp and roll it up/down, it definitely won’t take long to realize the effect it has in Cygnus, especially if you have both setups running at the same time to A/B.

Not sure what’s up with your AxeEdit, but if I generally have to restart it if my computer/laptop went to sleep because it disconnects.
 
I'm making progress.
In my original preset I had the optical compressor running at +4.8 volume going into the front end of the 6G4 Super. the 6G4 Super had the gain at 2.72 and the treble at 6.5 and then the 12db boost activated. Another optical compressor (both set at 2 compression) after the cab block
On Cygnus it seems that the compressor might be very different to before?
The same setting on Cygnus sends the amp into full blown overdrive rather than the dirty clean.

Also on a side note I don’t seem to be able to get the amps over loud. What I mean is that normally I would have the amp set to -9 or -12 or something on Ares but on Cygnus I’m pushing them +5 and so on.

I absolutely love the thing though, so happy with it. I just need to understand what’s changed.
 
HarrySound said:
I'm making progress.
In my original preset I had the optical compressor running at +4.8 volume going into the front end of the 6G4 Super. the 6G4 Super had the gain at 2.72 and the treble at 6.5 and then the 12db boost activated. Another optical compressor (both set at 2 compression) after the cab block
On Cygnus it seems that the compressor might be very different to before?
The same setting on Cygnus sends the amp into full blown overdrive rather than the dirty clean.
Click to expand...
There was a major compressor update in v18.0 so you should at least adjust the comp level so it's not pushing the amp input so hard. I redid all my compressor settings after that update. A lot of work but worth it!

18.00 (Axe III but is included in the FM9 firmware)


Overhauled the Compressor block:


  • • Improved Auto-Makeup gain behavior.
  • • Added Input Level switch. When set to INSTRUMENT the detector is optimized for guitar-level signals, i.e., before an amp block. When set to LINE the detector is optimized for post-amp level signals.
  • • The Pedal, Optical, Tube, Analog, JFET and Dynamicomp types have been completely redone resulting in improved performance. These types now inherently perform automatic makeup gain.
  • • Auto Attack/Release has been removed from the Pedal and Dynamicomp types as it is no longer applicable.
  • • NOTE: Due to all these changes the behavior and output volume of the Compressor block may be different. It is recommended to audition any presets using the Compressor block and adjust as required.
 
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HarrySound said:
I'm making progress.
In my original preset I had the optical compressor running at +4.8 volume going into the front end of the 6G4 Super. the 6G4 Super had the gain at 2.72 and the treble at 6.5 and then the 12db boost activated. Another optical compressor (both set at 2 compression) after the cab block
On Cygnus it seems that the compressor might be very different to before?
The same setting on Cygnus sends the amp into full blown overdrive rather than the dirty clean.

Also on a side note I don’t seem to be able to get the amps over loud. What I mean is that normally I would have the amp set to -9 or -12 or something on Ares but on Cygnus I’m pushing them +5 and so on.

I absolutely love the thing though, so happy with it. I just need to understand what’s changed.
Click to expand...
Coming from Ares, it might be worthwhile to read through the Firmware Release Notes to see the progressive changes to the amp modeling as well as other effects and features. If I recall correctly, the Compressor in particular received an overhaul in FW 18.
 
chris said:
it's in every download of the latest firmware.
Click to expand...
I was kinda talking about the Cygnus update in general. I guess the firmware is literally the same but custom built to take advantage of each units features.
Now I know the compressor had a major change in FW 18 I can start trouble shooting there….
 
HarrySound said:
I was kinda talking about the Cygnus update in general. I guess the firmware is literally the same but custom built to take advantage of each units features.
Now I know the compressor had a major change in FW 18 I can start trouble shooting there….
Click to expand...
Yeah there is a ton different from the prior Axe 2 , the impedance curves and new speaker modelling is a big departure, it will take you some time but I honestly think it sounds and feels much better
 
HarrySound said:
I understand that I’ll get used to it over time and perhaps be able to find solutions to my problems but the transition is really difficult.
I’m finding Cygnus to have much less definition and much more gain. One probably leads to the other but things are sounding a few steps away rather than in my face. I’m not getting the articulation perhaps because of the added gain.

For example I had a preset that was actually perfect (for me) it was a break up tone much like a Timmons tone. After years I finally felt like I had that present sparkle and chop from the plectrum but it seems to be underwhelming on Cygnus. In fact copying the settings exactly I have an overdrive tone, I have to turn the “input boost” down by 7db to come somewhat close.
I’m also finding there is less bass in Cygnus.

It makes a 5153 blue heavy tone easier to dial because of the added gain and less bass chug but when your expecting something to be there, even if your editing Some of it out your kinda thrown Off a little.

Any help or suggestions are welcome as obviously I haven’t been following the Axe Fx 3 developments.
Click to expand...
One thing I'd suggest is spending time with the factory presets. They were recently tweaked for the current firmware and sound great. Run your volume at about 90 dB and play through the various scenes and get a feel for what the unit can do. And, at the same time, save blocks you like to the Block Library, so you can grab them later and reuse them in your own presets.

The settings you used in previous versions of the firmware, pre-Cygnus, are often wrong because the parameter ranges have often changed because the modeling algorithms have changed. Resetting Amp blocks back to the default was a normal step in converting from pre-Cygnus on the modelers, but they had to be the current generation hardware. Presets built post-Cygnus don't have that step.

Overall, Cygnus-based presets sound much more realistic. I had my FM9 and one of my FRFR cabs out last night at a blues jam, and had a blast. Friends who sat in on the rig were very happy with the ODS-100-based preset I was using, so I know it can sound good. Like they say all the time, use your ears, not your eyes, because what we see and the numbers we used to use don't necessarily match, but the sounds sure do.
 
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