• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Combining several Redwirez Mics into a single IR (TUTORIAL)

InsideOut

Forum Addict
I've seen many things in the studio as well. The funniest is the exact opposite of VegaBaby. Went in to a "budget" studio to cut some demo tracks with the band. The "engineer" handed me a mic and said "go put this in front of your amp". I said, "you gonna help me position it?" He said "nah, it doesn't really matter where it goes" :roll: :roll: :roll: We didn't go back there again :lol:
 

jerotas

Veteran
Genghis said:
I also had to open the exported wave file in Sound Forge to remove a few samples at the beginning of my wave file before I converted it, but it seemed to work like a charm. Any audio editor should allow you zoom in and cut out the blank samples.
You can do this inside Sonar quiet easily. No reason to export to edit the wave. If you position your mouse over the beginning or end of a wav, the mouse will change from a pointer to another icon. You can then click the left mouse button and drag the beginning or end of the wave to non-destructively "clip" the part Sonar uses. If you move the mouse toward the top edge of the beginning or end of the wav and click-n-drag there (different icon), you can fade-in and fade-out non-destructively. After doing any of this, the entire wave is still stored and you can change your fade or endpoints without losing any audio. Don't feel bad, I didn't know this for years of using Sonar. Never read the manual.
 

Genghis

Forum Addict
jerotas said:
Genghis said:
I also had to open the exported wave file in Sound Forge to remove a few samples at the beginning of my wave file before I converted it, but it seemed to work like a charm. Any audio editor should allow you zoom in and cut out the blank samples.
You can do this inside Sonar quiet easily. No reason to export to edit the wave. If you position your mouse over the beginning or end of a wav, the mouse will change from a pointer to another icon. You can then click the left mouse button and drag the beginning or end of the wave to non-destructively "clip" the part Sonar uses. If you move the mouse toward the top edge of the beginning or end of the wav and click-n-drag there (different icon), you can fade-in and fade-out non-destructively. After doing any of this, the entire wave is still stored and you can change your fade or endpoints without losing any audio. Don't feel bad, I didn't know this for years of using Sonar. Never read the manual.
Actually, I know I can do that in SONAR too, just used the old way for this purpose. I do use slip editing a lot within projects, but for this purpose it made more sense as I didn't discover the "problem" until I opened it up in Sound Forge to inspect the results.

One other thing I noticed when opening up in Sound Forge is that the wave would clip even when the meters in SONAR were only hitting around -2db, so it took a couple of tries to get an IR that was close to 0db without going over.
 

funkle

Regular
Very cool tutorial. When creating the final IR, what should the output level be set to? Do we just try to match that of the pulse?

claudel said:
mortega76 said:
Maybe I wasn't paying attention but... Where do we get an EQ'd AIR IR?
Is this different AIR from the controls on page 2 of the cabinet block?
If you look at the description of the air channel, it is one of the RW IRs with an EQ added.
 

AndrewSimon

Forum Addict
funkle said:
Very cool tutorial. When creating the final IR, what should the output level be set to? Do we just try to match that of the pulse?
Probably as close to 0dB as possible without clipping,
this way it's going to be loud and you are guaranteed maximum resolution.

Other option is to try and match the levels of the other IR's you are using.
Just don't make it too low.

Albert's Utility created IR's are close to 0dB
Fractal factory IR's are in the -3dB to -6dB range

;)
 
S

Soultrash

Guest
Re: Combining several Redwirez Mics into a single IR (TUTORI

very interesting topic! :)

i've done some IR mixing but i never used a trigger signal.
i do not really understand what the trigger signal does.
usually i load two or three IR's, listen back and just adjust the volume
to get the desired mix ratio, then i export these three IRs into one singe IR- convert, done.
reading about the trigger signal makes me think that i was doing it wrong, but i con't really understand it.

may someone explain what the trigger signal is doing and why it is needed!? :)

does the trigger signal itself affect how the IR "sounds" ?

cheers
S.
 

AndrewSimon

Forum Addict
Re: Combining several Redwirez Mics into a single IR (TUTORI

Soultrash said:
usually i load two or three IR's, listen back and just adjust the volume
Load it where? into tracks on your DAW?
Or are you using an IR convolution plugin like the keFIR?
When you say "you are listening back" is that while playing your guitar
through the convolution plugin? ... or are you just listening to the wave files?


Soultrash said:
then i export these three IRs into one singe IR
You are exporting from the convolution plug?
Or are you exporting from your DAW (rendering tracks)?


In other words, more info needed.

My guess is that you are loading the wave files into several tracks and then just render them.
That will work but in order to monitor things the right way you should load them into a convolution
plug so you can "listen" to the IR's while playing your guitar.
In other words you are are monitoring the IR's while playing as if they were already loaded into the AXE-FX.
You are monitoring the "final" results.

If you do that then the trigger is needed to "sample the convolution setup" into a wave file.
Exporting (rendering) a track loaded with a convolution plug will give you a bunch of zeros (no cab effect)
You have to have a "signal" that you will render.
The "trigger" is that signal.


;)
 
S

Soultrash

Guest
Re: Combining several Redwirez Mics into a single IR (TUTORI

Load it where? into tracks on your DAW?
Or are you using an IR convolution plugin like the keFIR?
When you say "you are listening back" is that while playing your guitar
through the convolution plugin? ... or are you just listening to the wave files?


when i tried it the first time i just loaded 5 IR's into DAW tracks,
adjusted the volume (by touch :D) and exported it to one single IR.
i did not really listen back, it was just a first test,
i just wanted to see if i was able to create an IR and convert it to axe format.
it worked, and actually it sounded OK.

You are exporting from the convolution plug?
Or are you exporting from your DAW (rendering tracks)?


yeah, yesterday i tried it using cubase 5's REVerence reverb.
again i created 5 tracks. this time i loaded your trigger signal into the tracks.
iloaded REVerence into the first insert of each track and then i loaded an IR into REVerence.
the strange thing about that is that i really got an zero signal even with the trigger signal being loaded into 5 tracks.

cheers
S.
 

AndrewSimon

Forum Addict
Re: Combining several Redwirez Mics into a single IR (TUTORI

Soultrash said:
yeah, yesterday i tried it using cubase 5's REVerence reverb.
again i created 5 tracks. this time i loaded your trigger signal into the tracks.
iloaded REVerence into the first insert of each track and then i loaded an IR into REVerence.
the strange thing about that is that i really got an zero signal even with the trigger signal being loaded into 5 tracks.

cheers
S.
Unfortunately I do not know anything about Cubase.
You can only use 1 trigger, you need to route the signal of this 1 trigger to all
5 tacks... but the whole idea is to monitor the signal live.

Load a patch in the AXE-FX and remove the CAB, send the CAB-less signal to all
5 tracks (again Cubase knowledge is needed), this way you can play and adjust in real time.

;)
 
S

Soultrash

Guest
Re: Combining several Redwirez Mics into a single IR (TUTORI

AndrewSimon said:
Unfortunately I do not know anything about Cubase.
You can only use 1 trigger, you need to route the signal of this 1 trigger to all
5 tacks... but the whole idea is to monitor the signal live.

Load a patch in the AXE-FX and remove the CAB, send the CAB-less signal to all
5 tracks (again Cubase knowledge is needed), this way you can play and adjust in real time.
ok, here's how i am doing it right now.
i took one of my presets, disabled the cab sim, activated the monitoring in cubase and loaded an IR into
REVerence (cubase IR based reverb that can handle IR's)
now i can directly hear how the non-cab signal from the axe sounds when an IR is applied.
this works only with one IR so far. now i have to find how to monitor multiple IR's.

any cubase experts here!?

sorry for my lack of knowledge, i just want to try this,
as it really seems to be a gbig improvement in sound :)

cheers
S.
 

Genghis

Forum Addict
Re: Combining several Redwirez Mics into a single IR (TUTORI

I don't know Cubase, but in SONAR to do what you are asking you just add an additional FX send to the track you are using, and add your IR plug-in to the buss for that track. I think if you make sure it's a pre-fader send you are sure to get a send that is unprocessed by IR you have inserted in the track itself. I'm guessing that the process would be very similar in Cubase, it just might use slightly different terminology.

One tip I'll throw out there as well. Don't get too carried away thinking that more is better in this case. When I first started playing with mixing IR's I tried up to about 5 of them mixed together, but the sound starts to get muddied and washed out. Now most of my mixes only use a couple of close mics and a room mic. I started with the basic mix recipes that Scott Peterson posted, but since then I've done a lot of experimenting to find what I like best from each of the cabs I use.
 
S

Soultrash

Guest
Re: Combining several Redwirez Mics into a single IR (TUTORI

just tired it again after asking some cubase experts. it seems like such a routing is not really possible in cubase5.
that's strange as cubase always i names a professional music production tool.
tried several routings i got from other forums, no sucess so far :(

cheers
S.
 

SpyCam

New here
OK, i have tried that method with OwnHammer IRs. I must say that the result i got is almost identical to what i had with 2 cab impulses. "Almost" - is because operating with only one impulse file now i get a much quieter sound, and on a quick volume match that i tried to dial in the result sound has slightly less lows (or low mids) and highs (or hi mids) but it shouldn't be hard to compensate that with amp settings or EQ
 
Top Bottom