Combining several Redwirez Mics into a single IR (TUTORIAL)

AndrewSimon

Power User
After posting this little sample (see below), many have asked me how did I combine the 5 mics into a single IR
to be converted and loaded into the AXE-FX as a single SYX file.
This is a TUTORIAL explaining how I did it.
(Expert users go to PHASE 2)


OK we are bored... so we are going to layer 5 microphones to capture 1 cab :shock:

Amp: BRIT 800
Cab: Orange 4x12 V30

Main Mic: RE20 Cap 0"
AIR Mic: RE20 Cone 1" Bandpass EQed 100Hz - 650Hz
Bright Mic: I5 Cap 1"
Back Mic: KM84 Back of Cab 6"
Room Mic: R121 NullAndWall 12"

Here is the "script" to what we are listening to:

1 - Main Mic
2 - Main + Bright
3 - Main + Bright + Back (a little more 3D)
4 - Main + Bright + Back + Room (even more 3d)
5 - Main + Bright + Back + Room + AIR (Wow did you hear that one?)

6 - Solo Room Mic
7 - Solo Back Mic
8 - Solo Bright Mic
9 - Solo AIR Mic
10 - Solo Main Mic

11 - All Mic Finale

http://www.andras-shimon.com/TEMP/5micTest.mp3

"United, we are Strong"
Any Mic by itself sounds so so, but together they rule!

:D :oops: :D


And now... just for fun.... we will take these 5 mics as they are mixed right now
and we will resample them to create a single IR that we will convert and load into the AXE-FX.
Let's see how close can we get.

AXE-FX with 1 User Cab:
http://www.andras-shimon.com/TEMP/5in1.mp3

;)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There are 3 stages as I see it:
1 - Auditioning the samples to be chosen and mixing them to your liking.
(this is DAW dependent but if you are lost I will have an easy "universal way" of doing it for those who need it)

2 - "Sampling" the setup to create a single IR.
(once everything is setup and mixed to your liking we will sample the whole setup to capture a single IR)

3 - Converting the single IR into SYX file that can be loaded into the AXE-FX.
(I am not going to cover this, there are 2 Utilities to do this, the Fractal one and Albert's, tutorials are available on WIKI)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHASE 1
This is the DAW phase, if you are familiar with your DAW and have no problem setting up 5 mic channels
to audition the IR's then you can skip this, I will show an easy "universal" way of doing it.


The basics:
You will need a computer with a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) such as Sonar, Cubase or similar.
You will need an IR convolution plugin to load the IR's.
A list of them is on Redwirez web site tutorial page:
http://www.redwirez.com/tutorials.jsp
Out of the FREE ones I have used keFIR with no problems.
http://habib.webhost.pl/vst_keFIR.php

The DAW I'm using is Tracktion3 and even thought Tracktion3 has a wonderful "Virtual Audio Rack"
I will be using a EnergyXT inside Tracktion3 in this example. (this will make it "universal")

EnergyXT is a modular DAW where you can do all kind of crazy routings.
EnergyXT can be used as a standalone DAW or as a VST (or VSTi) plugin.
That means you can keep using your favorite DAW and you can open EnergyXT as an "effect VST"
within your DAW. (kinda like a host within a host)

So no matter what DAW you use once you load the EnergyXTE (E for effect VST plug) this is what you see.

EnergyXT_V1.jpg


As you can see doing "crazy routings" in EnergyXT is as easy as pie.
You load 5 keFIR's (one has an EQ after it) then just connect the "virtual cables" from the input to
the output.
Note, you can rename any block to what ever you need (MAIN, Bright, Rear).... how convenient.
When you click on these blocks keFIR will open up and you will load the corresponding impulses.
Also note the mixer on the left, it gets labeled automatically so you can easily mix the IR's, Solo or Mute them.
Need more brightness?... Just turn up the "Bright mic" slider!

NOTE I am using EnergyXT version 1, this version is very simple and easy to work with.
It is a perfect tool for this job.
EnergyXT has a new version 2 out but that one is a different animal.
EnergyXT is not free but it's very reasonably priced.
You can still get Version1 and a DEMO of it here:
http://www.energy-xt.com/xt1.php
I think you can use the DEMO for 30 days, you can NOT purchase version 1 but if you
purchase version 2 (59 Euro) you will receive version 1 as a "bonus"


So now after we setup everything, choose the IR's we like and we mixed them the way we like it,
we can just do "Save As" within EnergyXT, let's say "Fender_5mic_CAB", so next time we can just recall the preset.
This is very convenient, I sometimes do all kind of crazy routings (not necessarily guitar related)
and it can all be saved as a preset, you can even open it in other DAWs because EnergyXTE is a plug.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHASE 2
(Getting late here so I'll do this quickly, more tomorrow.)
Once we have everything setup we need to sample the entire setup (all 5 cabs)
Sampling is easy, we do it the same way we create IR's.
We send a Pulse (Trigger) through the setup and Record the result.

A few important things:
- You must setup your DAW to 48KHz 24 bit sampling rate.
- You must Record (or export the result) in 48KHz 24 bit MONO
- You must remove any leading silence at the beginning of the file before converting to SYX

Here is the Pulse (Trigger) that I am using (more on this tomorrow)

http://www.andras-shimon.com/TEMP/Trigger2.wav
(right click and save)

It's a very short wave file.
Load it into a track on your DAW, run it through the 5cab setup and render.
That's about it.

If you are using EnergyXT, load the Trigger into a mono track, load EnergyXTE as an effect.
Open EnergyXTE and recall the saved "Fender_5mic_CAB" preset.

Hit record.
The resulting wave file is your combined IR.

Alternatively hit render (also called export or "Save as" in some DAWs)

There is a third way (very easy) that I will go into tomorrow.
It's a plug called "TapeIt", it's like a tape recorder you can put anywhere in your DAW
and simply record what you are hearing (not much in this case)
For TapeIt (free) see:
http://www.silverspike.com/?Download
The free version is on the bottom.

DON'T FORGET!
Whatever you do, make sure the end result is 48KHz/24bit/MONO


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PHASE 3
As I mentioned I am not going to go into details here.
You just convert the "sampled" single IR into SYX file using Fractal or Albert's converter
and you load it into the AXE-FX.
Tutorials are available on this forum and on the AXE-FX WIKI.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow Up Feedback
If you use keFIR:
- The "MIX" MUST be on 100% otherwise you will be mixing "no cab" sound in the final result.
- The "LENGHT" should be on 40% (0.08 sec) in order to hear the full lenght of the Ambiance cabs.

General
- Make sure your signal is NOT clipping anywhere in the chain, remember it's a super short pulse
you want the final level to be as close to 0dB as possible but without going over.


........ more tomorrow

:roll:
 
How simple.

Yet, never occurred to me.

You da' man! Thanks for sharing!!

(Now I know what I have to do this week). :D

***Reinforcing something Andrew believes in and has said - you cannot share re-convoluted IR's with other folks based on commercially copyrighted collections. You can 'roll your own' for personal use after you have paid for them though.

Andrew has shared the 'keys to the kingdom' so you have to do your own work getting there from here.
 
Cool stuff. Thanks Andrew. I purchased the pack as well will try to reproduce what you did through Sonar and the same plugin.
 
What you've done for us here is given us the ability to construct complicated IR's that can now be used to maximize the 10 user slots in the Axe-FX.

If I was using 2 slots and using them as a pair in the Axe-FX; now I can craft them with more detail (customizing them in the DAW) and end up with one 'perfect' IR per amp type/tone.

That makes it 10 cab 'setups' available in the Axe-FX versus 5 cab 'setups' available in my personal case.

You've done a lot here to make the Axe-FX even more useful to me and I thank you for it. What you've shown in your tutorial is what some already understood and done, but you showed guys (like me, that should have already figured this out) how to do it.

So, in my case, you've doubled the amount of user cab 'setups' I have available for use.

Thanks Andrew!
 
And he's really opened up the complicated cab block setups for Standard users like myself. I get to keep the cab block mono hi-res, but now there's no limit on the near and far blending. So another thank you from a Standard owner this time.

Edit: over on the TGP mirror of this thread one of the Red Wirez guys chimed in to say making derivative IRs for personal use was within the terms of their EULA.
 
Wow, excellent tutorial. That EnergyXT VST plugin looks just perfect, another "must have" although not freeware (I guess I can't complain, I still need to buy Reaper, keFIR is free, the Big Box bundle from Red Wirez is very reasonably priced, etc...)
Great time to be a home recording enthusiast for sure. This will allow you to really maximize the 10 IR slots in the AxeFX for sure. Of course the bonus is that you also have these saved cab "formulations" in your DAW for testing, reamping (or recabing lol!), just great stuff.
A day ago I figured IR's would be another steep learning curve. This morning, I realize it's not difficult at all and well worth the time and effort to extend the AxeFX into an incredible piece of gear (not that it isn't already).
I could see Cliff extending the AxeFX to be able to "expose" some of these options (mic placement and such) and other controls in the AxeFX somehow in realtime. Very similar to how GR3 offers these options already... that would be SICK!
Anyway, Thanks!
 
Wow! Thanks for posting this. It's a great idea I never would have thought of. I just set up a template in SONAR using perfect space to combine 6 cab impulses for the Marshall V30 and it worked great. I'm gonna spend the rest of the day playing around with this and do the other cabs as well.

Thanks again!
Bob
 
So, upon purchasing the Redwirez IRs you get 1000+ IRs (only counting one resolution) and you can now combine these fi. in this example in 5 ways. That's not including the 900+ IRs that were already collected.

That's like gazillions of possibilities... :shock:

I thought it was tough selecting with just the 900. :roll:


However, there was not much difference between your 5 mic mix and the mono IR in the Axe in your examples above... Very nice indeed.
I should stop hanging around this board. I'd have some time to actually do stuff...
 
schnarf said:
You can actually just open the wav files for the impulses and mix them all together.

Not really, technically you could just "blindly" mix them but the result won't be very pleasing.
You want to hear the result while playing and adjust the levels between the IR's before you render.
You must use a convolution plugin otherwise you can't hear what you are doing.

:!:
 
AndrewSimon said:
schnarf said:
You can actually just open the wav files for the impulses and mix them all together.

Not really, technically you could just "blindly" mix them but result won't be very pleasing.
You want to hear the result while playing and adjust the levels between the IR's before you render.

:!:

That and adjusting EQ.
 
Yep, I just tried this. It does work, but it's a completely blind shot. It's pretty fast to just keep making trials (I made four and tested them in about 3 minutes), but this method could take forever to get it right. I love this blending idea, but hate the thought of talking to the CFO (wifey) about spending more money on software :oops:
 
Please don't yell at me for asking, but is it possible to accomplish this with just Sonar 6 Studio and not have to purchase EnergyXT? I already have keFIR loaded in Sonar.
 
InsideOut said:
Yep, I just tried this. It does work, but it's a completely blind shot. It's pretty fast to just keep making trials (I made four and tested them in about 3 minutes), but this method could take forever to get it right. I love this blending idea, but hate the thought of talking to the CFO (wifey) about spending more money on software :oops:


I want to make this clear for everybody.
You do NOT need to purchase EnergyXT to do this.
You can do all this in any DAW or Wave Editor.
It might not be easy and you might need some deeper knowledge of your DAW
but it can be done.

The reason I showed EnergyXT here is because it's an easy tool to achieve this
and it's a plugin so everybody can use it in their own DAW without a big learning curve.


If you don't have a DAW/Wave-Editor and you don't have any funds.... you can still do it!
Download Reaper:
http://www.reaper.fm/

It's a great DAW, you get a "30 Day demo"
in reality the demo never expires but you "should do the right thing if you use it".

;)
 
InsideOut said:
Please don't yell at me for asking, but is it possible to accomplish this with just Sonar 6 Studio and not have to purchase EnergyXT? I already have keFIR loaded in Sonar.

You can download the demo of voxengo's pristine space. The demo drops out briefly every 25 seconds, but you only need a couple of seconds to render.

kefir is free
voxengo boogex is free.
 
InsideOut said:
Please don't yell at me for asking, but is it possible to accomplish this with just Sonar 6 Studio and not have to purchase EnergyXT? I already have keFIR loaded in Sonar.
Hmm........... let's see......

Genghis said:
Wow! Thanks for posting this. It's a great idea I never would have thought of. I just set up a template in SONAR using perfect space to combine 6 cab impulses for the Marshall V30 and it worked great. I'm gonna spend the rest of the day playing around with this and do the other cabs as well.

Thanks again!
Bob

Maybe you should ask Bob for that template!


:idea:
 
AndrewSimon said:
InsideOut said:
Please don't yell at me for asking, but is it possible to accomplish this with just Sonar 6 Studio and not have to purchase EnergyXT? I already have keFIR loaded in Sonar.
Hmm........... let's see......

Genghis said:
Wow! Thanks for posting this. It's a great idea I never would have thought of. I just set up a template in SONAR using perfect space to combine 6 cab impulses for the Marshall V30 and it worked great. I'm gonna spend the rest of the day playing around with this and do the other cabs as well.

Thanks again!
Bob

Maybe you should ask Bob for that template!


:idea:

I don't think sonar 6 comes with persect space (convolution app). It came on 7 and beyond. That being said, one of the free vst's ought to do fine.
 
javajunkie said:
InsideOut said:
Please don't yell at me for asking, but is it possible to accomplish this with just Sonar 6 Studio and not have to purchase EnergyXT? I already have keFIR loaded in Sonar.

You can download the demo of voxengo's pristine space. The demo drops out briefly every 25 seconds, but you only need a couple of seconds to render.

kefir is free
voxengo boogex is free.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Sean, you quoted me saying I already have keFIR loaded in Sonar, and then told me I can download it for free ;)

Unfortunately perfect space is not on Studio, only Producer.

I'd be eternally grateful (now that you guys made it so I can't stop thinking about it) for any guidance on how to do it. It appears I have all the tools necessary, I just don't know where to begin. :cool:
 
InsideOut said:
I'd be eternally grateful (now that you guys made it so I can't stop thinking about it) for any guidance on how to do it. It appears I have all the tools necessary, I just don't know where to begin. :cool:

Well you need somebody who knows Sonar... and I'm not the one but I'll try anyway.

Can you route your "guitar input" to 5 tracks at the same time? (open "input 1" on multiple tracks?)
If you can then just load keFIR on each track as an effect, open and load the IR's.

If you can't here is a workaround that I'm sure it will work.
Just record a 2 minute guitar noodling, import that file into 5 tracks. (make sure they all start at the exact same time)
Load the 5 keFIRs (one on each track) open the IR's with keFIR, hit play and "mix and match" your impulses.

Does that work for starters?

:idea:
 
AndrewSimon said:
InsideOut said:
I'd be eternally grateful (now that you guys made it so I can't stop thinking about it) for any guidance on how to do it. It appears I have all the tools necessary, I just don't know where to begin. :cool:

Well you need somebody who knows Sonar... and I'm not the one but I'll try anyway.

Can you route your "guitar input" to 5 tracks at the same time? (open "input 1" on multiple tracks?)
If you can then just load keFIR on each track as an effect, open and load the IR's.

If you can't here is a workaround that I'm sure it will work.
Just record a 2 minute guitar noodling, import that file into 5 tracks. (make sure they all start at the exact same time)
Load the 5 keFIRs (one on each track) open the IR's with keFIR, hit play and "mix and match" your impulses.

Does that work for starters?

:idea:

Now THAT's what I'm talking about! Andrew, you are officially THE MAN :cool: . I had the feeling I was overthinking it, but your "trigger" track was throwing me off - I couldn't figure for the life of me how that plays in.

One quick question - would you recommend adjusting levels on the tracks or use the gain in keFIR?

Thanks hugely :cool:
 
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