Clock Question

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Don Cicchetti

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Hey all,

When using the Axe III with my RME UFX interface, I want to run an AES digital signal from the out of the AES connector on the Axe to the AES in on the RME. Problem is that the Axe cannot be slave in that situation because it wants to see clock on it's AES input, not out, and if I make it master and the RME slave, the RME gets unhappy and playback drops in and out. I did set the RME to AES for clock and set it to 48K, so that's not the issue and honestly, I want to use the RME as house clock anyway.

So,

Can I run word clock to the Axe somehow? There's no connector for it. I'm using the AES out instead of the USB (and aggregate sound source on the Mac) so that I can practice guitar on the Axe without launching Logic every time by listening through the RME's virtual mixer and its AES channel.

Anyone know of a fix for this?

Oh, and the USB is asynchronous right? It is packet based and clock does not matter?

thanks

Don
 
Oh, and it gets worse. The project was tracked at 44.1 and I cannot change the RME clock to 48...

Have y'all dealt with this?

thanks

D
 
OK, using an aggregate object in Audio Midi setup seems to sync the Axe up, at 48, to 44.1 projects when I choose the RME as the clock source and click "drift correction" on the Axe while using the USB input.

Is this the fix?

Sure wish we had word clock in on the Axe and the ability to output 44.1.

Am I missing something?

Should I do all. future projects at 48?

Is a 15 foot long USB cable an issue?

thanks

Don
 
There were just several discussions about sample rates on the Axe-FX. Long story short, it's always going to be at 48 kHz, so if you want to track it digitally you should do your projects at that sample rate. You could always run an AES out from UFX to provide master clock to the Axe-FX. It would be useful for reamping as well. Personally what I do is I just switch audio cards when tracking guitars. I have an RME UFX as well, and I just connect Out 1 from the Axe-FX to the RME analog ins, and turn the level up in TotalMix so I can monitor with not latency. When it's time to track guitars in my DAW (Logic Pro X) I just switch audio cards to the Axe-FX USB and record my guitar parts. I turn off input monitoring in Logic since I am already monitoring through the analog ins and TotalMix. When I need to record something other than guitars, I just switch the audio device in the Logic Preferences back to my UFX and then I can use that for synths or vocals or whatever.
 
Kamil Kisiel said:
There were just several discussions about sample rates on the Axe-FX. Long story short, it's always going to be at 48 kHz, so if you want to track it digitally you should do your projects at that sample rate. You could always run an AES out from UFX to provide master clock to the Axe-FX. It would be useful for reamping as well. Personally what I do is I just switch audio cards when tracking guitars. I have an RME UFX as well, and I just connect Out 1 from the Axe-FX to the RME analog ins, and turn the level up in TotalMix so I can monitor with not latency. When it's time to track guitars in my DAW (Logic Pro X) I just switch audio cards to the Axe-FX USB and record my guitar parts. I turn off input monitoring in Logic since I am already monitoring through the analog ins and TotalMix. When I need to record something other than guitars, I just switch the audio device in the Logic Preferences back to my UFX and then I can use that for synths or vocals or whatever.
Click to expand...
I’ve got them working together now, with the Axe at 48 and the project and UFX at 44.1. I made the UFX the clock in audio midi setup with the Axe as part of an aggregate device and drift comp selected on the Axe.

I tried sending AES out from the UFX to AES in on the Axe and setting the Axe to AES for clock. All sorts of problems. I think that may work with a 48k project?

Anyway, thanks for the great input.

Don
 
You would definitely need to run your project at 48 kHz if you're going to send a clock to the Axe-FX. I've mistakenly sent 44.1 kHz to it a few times when I was using SPIDF and it resulted in all sorts of weird things happening.
 
fractalz said:
Just run an analog path to/from the Axe. That is how I get by this issue. I have projects at all different rates.
Click to expand...
For me, at this price point, I’m really needing digital. Fortunately, the aggregate I/O settings seem to be working with older, 44.1 projects .

You can bet all future projects will be 48 !

Don
 
Don Cicchetti said:
Go ahead if you like, but I am a recording guy and mastering for a very long time and I’m simply not going to use one more conversion than I have to.

Don
Click to expand...
is there a measurable difference between
  1. using an analog output from the axefx into your interface
  2. the conversion performed in your DAW when you feed it 48 kHz audio in a 44.1 kHz project?
 
flying_walrus said:
is there a measurable difference between
  1. using an analog output from the axefx into your interface
  2. the conversion performed in your DAW when you feed it 48 kHz audio in a 44.1 kHz project?
Click to expand...
Don’t like doing that either. Unit should have word clock in and be able to output 44.1.

Pretty basic stuff here. You go measure if you like.

Don
 
Don Cicchetti said:
Don’t like doing that either. Unit should have word clock in and be able to output 44.1.

Pretty basic stuff here. You go measure if you like.

Don
Click to expand...
I see. good luck with that dead horse.

on a completely unrelated topic, is anyone else using the forum's "ignore" feature a lot these days?
 
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Don Cicchetti said:
Don’t like doing that either. Unit should have word clock in and be able to output 44.1.

Pretty basic stuff here. You go measure if you like.

Don
Click to expand...
Don,

I get what you are trying to do. It’s a bit of a pain when you are using two interfaces. I struggled looking for the cleanest setup too. If you don’t plan on reamping, the analog route is way less headache and you’ll never notice the difference. If you are going to reamp, usb works best but projects must be at 48k. It’s kind of a compromise situation here. Alternatively, I’m currently running SPDIF into an Apollo 8 with sample conversion on. That works great, again, can’t reamp without more trickery.
 
Dunconia said:
Don,

I get what you are trying to do. It’s a bit of a pain when you are using two interfaces. I struggled looking for the cleanest setup too. If you don’t plan on reamping, the analog route is way less headache and you’ll never notice the difference. If you are going to reamp, usb works best but projects must be at 48k. It’s kind of a compromise situation here. Alternatively, I’m currently running SPDIF into an Apollo 8 with sample conversion on. That works great, again, can’t reamp without more trickery.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Analog is not going to happen. I’m going to try running everything @ 48 and clocking from the RME with both in and out AES cables and the RME as clock source later today.

If that works than that will be my standard setup. If not, then I’ll try the aggregate source setup with everything at 48 and no conversion.

You know, as good as the Axe III is for guitar sounds, it’s not even in the league with the UFX as a studio interface. The Axe needs to be something I can easily integrate into a pro level studio without using the analog outs and reconverting. Again basic stuff. If I can’t find a good way to do this, the Axe goes back.

Appreciate the good advice here.

Don
 
Don Cicchetti said:
Go ahead if you like, but I am a recording guy and mastering for a very long time and I’m simply not going to use one more conversion than I have to.

Don
Click to expand...

Well, hopefully you can see why some people think this is a silly perspective. If the AxeFX were a black box with only analog out, you wouldn't have any trouble connecting it to your system. It has whatever sound it has out of the analog output. It may be different than the signal coming out of the digital out, but better, worse, the same? Does it matter? My Marshall combo doesn't have a digital out, nor does my 121 mic, but I still use them...

And, please don't use an 1176 on those guitars, it might add some distortion ;)
 
fractalz said:
Well, hopefully you can see why some people think this is a silly perspective. If the AxeFX were a black box with only analog out, you wouldn't have any trouble connecting it to your system. It has whatever sound it has out of the analog output. It may be different than the signal coming out of the digital out, but better, worse, the same? Does it matter? My Marshall combo doesn't have a digital out, nor does my 121 mic, but I still use them...

And, please don't use an 1176 on those guitars, it might add some distortion ;)
Click to expand...
What a collection of suspect reasoning... whew.

It’s not a black box, it’s a digital audio processor. Unnecessary conversions added to a digital device are poor practice and we prefer to avoid them.

Why would you add a conversion stage to your Marshall and then reconvert it to analog only to convert it again at you interface? To a mic?

None for me, thanks.

And oh yeah, stringing multiple A-D D-A stages together sounds just like an 1176. You bet.

Guys, this is not a useful line of reasoning. It has digital outs. They need to work. Done.

Don
 
Don Cicchetti said:
What a collection of suspect reasoning... whew.

It’s not a black box, it’s a digital audio processor. Unnecessary conversions added to a digital device are poor practice and we prefer to avoid them.

Why would you add a conversion stage to your Marshall and then reconvert it to analog only to convert it again at you interface? To a mic?

None for me, thanks.

And oh yeah, stringing multiple A-D D-A stages together sounds just like an 1176. You bet.

Guys, this is not a useful line of reasoning. It has digital outs. They need to work. Done.

Don
Click to expand...
Yeah, I guess I don't know what I'm doing. Record Marshall cab. AD to DAW. Back out my converters to analog 1176, back in through converters, back out to the SSL console to hit the 2 bus, print back into the DAW. Out again to the ATR-102 to master, back in to the DAW to go to distribution.

Replace Marshall with analog out of the AxeFx and there's no way I'd hear the difference. Try to eliminate all those conversions and I lose the convenience of my workflow so some teenager can listen to it on their earbuds on the bus? No thanks.
 
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