Cliff, Matt, et. al - A Serious Offer

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harmaes said:
Thanks for your offer.

Which profiles did you use with the Kemper and which ones did you prefer? Did these include any pedals like B7k?
Talked to Ben Eller yesterday and he mentioned that since he got the latest Sansamp bass driver v2 from Tech21 that he used that solely straight into the Daw and wasn't using the Kemper anymore. :)
Not sure if that's a classification for the Kemper though. :D

Which Helix amp models/pedals did you prefer?

In general which modeler do you prefer and/or are you still using?
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I use:
-Craig Novak's Mesa Prodigy profiles
-Kimura's Mesa Carbine profiles
-MBritt's ampeg bass profiles
-Choptones SVT7 and Fender Bassman profiles
-Guido's SVT profiles
-My own V-4B, SVT7, and GK MB Fusion 800 profiles I've made over the years

I don't use the B7k, so none in my Kemper profiles. I know they are the uber popular pedal these days, but they don't fit the tone profile of the bands I'm currently playing in. I tried its model in the Helix, but as you know the B7 has more than just B/M/T controls and I didn't have much time to figure out the pedal's workings. My primary tone is Eric Avery/Peter Hook style so I use distortion lightly (usually a Timmy or Klon model on my Helix) and in parallel paths on my Helix, and I use my Boss BB-1X with my analog rigs.
 
Thanks! So you're currently primarily using the Kemper?
Of the Ampeg profiles which one do you prefer the most? I noticed some pricing differences when searching these.
 
It looks like a Helix may be ending up in my hands for a short term loan. If that pans out, I'll try my best to make a good comparison of AX8 to Helix, as well as B7K to Helix's B7K model.
Here's my initial thought on methodology / testing goals:
1) Setup presets with just amp + cab block. Ensuring using the "same" amp (i.e. SVT and Mesa/Boogie 400 --- I also just happen to have a Mesa/Boogie 400 sitting next to me, so I can compare both to the "real thing". Also have super easy access to vintage SVTs, SVT-CL, and SVT-VR heads). Also, will make sure to use the exact same IR in both if possible.
-- settings on controls will be interesting. I'll try first with "default" controls, then I will start twisting knobs
2) Setup a (Helix) preset with just the B7K model - compare it to the real deal
3) General use and seeing which one sounds and works better for bass.
 
selta said:
So, yes, you are missing a lot. As a person who doesn't play bass, you likely don't "get it". I don't mean to be rude, but I'm quite tired of being told - by guitarists, of all folks - that what I have is "good enough" and that I should be happy with what I have.
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It was an honest question. Because the IR is almost ALWAYS mentioned on the GUITAR side as the "solution" to everything.

And I DO play bass. I've played bass in more bands than I have guitar. But I write music on guitar and often consider myself more a guitarist I guess.

I'm not telling you at all anything about "good enough". I was simply asking why IR's aren't the solution.

And yes, you are being rude.

So screw you ...
 
selta said:
It looks like a Helix may be ending up in my hands for a short term loan. If that pans out, I'll try my best to make a good comparison of AX8 to Helix, as well as B7K to Helix's B7K model.
Here's my initial thought on methodology / testing goals.
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That seems like a great strategy to compare both!
 
bvaughn0402 said:
It was an honest question. Because the IR is almost ALWAYS mentioned on the GUITAR side as the "solution" to everything.

And I DO play bass. I've played bass in more bands than I have guitar. But I write music on guitar and often consider myself more a guitarist I guess.

I'm not telling you at all anything about "good enough". I was simply asking why IR's aren't the solution.

And yes, you are being rude.

So screw you ...
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IRs are not the solution to everything... Not even close.

They are a major part in the overall "character" of your tone, but that is pretty much where it stops.
 
unix-guy said:
IRs are not the solution to everything... Not even close.

They are a major part in the overall "character" of your tone, but that is pretty much where it stops.
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Well, I do respect that. I was basing this off what Cliff said in this thread: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/the-importance-of-irs.51967/

"Impulse Responses (IRs) are the single most important part of an amplifier plus cab's sound yet they are often overlooked. People concentrate on the amp when it's the cab that has far more influence on the sound."

Maybe Cliff is wrong?

Or perhaps if we are talking about micing a bass cab, then it is important. But if you are just going after direct sound, then IR is very insignificant?
 
bvaughn0402 said:
It was an honest question. Because the IR is almost ALWAYS mentioned on the GUITAR side as the "solution" to everything.

And I DO play bass. I've played bass in more bands than I have guitar. But I write music on guitar and often consider myself more a guitarist I guess.

I'm not telling you at all anything about "good enough". I was simply asking why IR's aren't the solution.

And yes, you are being rude.

So screw you ...
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After a "screw you", I'm hesitant to reply. But, I will anyway, and then dropping it, as we're getting way off course here.
You obviously have little understanding of how tone shaping works, especially with bass guitar. Yes, in an Amp + Cab only type scenario, the cab is important - be it a real cab, or a modeled one.
Here's a little secret - the stock cabs have been junk for so long, a lot of bass players didn't even have cabs in their presets. Now that Dr Bonkers (in a major way!) and 3 Sigma (a good amount) have filled in the gap, we bassists finally have good cab IR options. I went probably 2 or 3 years without a cab IR though. Other bassists have as well.
Your post also showed a complete lack of time spent reading through this thread. Do you believe an IR is really going to capture a new amp head? A foundational effect pedal? The answer to both is a very solid NO. What an IR does is pretty focused, and has nothing to do with how the amp or fx models themselves sound.

unix-guy said:
IRs are not the solution to everything... Not even close.

They are a major part in the overall "character" of your tone, but that is pretty much where it stops.
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Bingo. This guy gets it.

bvaughn0402 said:
Well, I do respect that. I was basing this off what Cliff said in this thread: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/the-importance-of-irs.51967/

"Impulse Responses (IRs) are the single most important part of an amplifier plus cab's sound yet they are often overlooked. People concentrate on the amp when it's the cab that has far more influence on the sound."

Maybe Cliff is wrong?

Or perhaps if we are talking about micing a bass cab, then it is important. But if you are just going after direct sound, then IR is very insignificant?
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He's not wrong. But he's also being very specific in saying the part that I bolded + underlined. He was also talking about guitar tone, where it's arguable that cabs have much more of an impact on their overall tone (short history lesson: for ages, bassists recorded direct to boards, no amp/cab). Guitar and bass are two entirely different instruments, operating in different mechanical ways, in vastly different audio spectrum. You cannot apply what you do on guitar to bass, much like you can't apply what you do on guitar to a timpani player.
 
selta said:
Your post also showed a complete lack of time spent reading through this thread. Do you believe an IR is really going to capture a new amp head?
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I was asking your opinion, you freakin moron.

Instead, all you show me is your character. Accusing me of things I NEVER even said.

Obviously, you don't remember me. I messaged you on here for BASS ADVICE about a year or so ago.

I THANKED YOU for continuing the efforts to get more bass amps modeled for the Axe FX.

YOUR posts showed a COMPLETE lack of time spent in reading WHAT I ACTUALLY WROTE. Because I SAID in that post that I was ALSO hoping for more bass things ... NOT what you ACCUSED me of (that it was "good" enough).

I simply asked a question ... wanted your thoughts ... and I get your bass-y attitude shoved down my throat. If nothing else, I was adding ANOTHER voice and bumping threads to give publicity to the Fractal team.

Did I say you were wrong?! Did I actually say that what we have was "good enough"?! You threw me under a bus unfairly.

No thanks ... I'm done with you and any support of what you have done.

Good luck in your bass efforts. You just lost one supporter.
 
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Peace. Let's dial it down a notch and let this thread's purpose shine through.
 
Excuse me for my incorrect assumptions about a person asking about IRs in a thread about bass amps and FX pedals.
With the bass IR's out there, wouldn't that be sufficient for a lot of stuff?
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The way I read this, and most of the rest of that post was "it's good enough", since that's basically the definition of "sufficient". If that wasn't your intent, well, I took this at face value and I guess I misread, or read too much into the text and not a broader meaning that I'm still not grasping.
 
I'm all for sharing opinions and sometimes defending what you think is right or what you're aiming for. In this case we're trying to convince Fractal that the bass amps and pedals could really use some extension!
It's important to avoid taking things personally. As we mostly don't know each other personally an argument is hardly ever meant to be personal.
As mentioned before I think it's good to keep the peace. It never helps to get offensive to each other. Hope we can clear this and get back to discussing what we want added to our beloved Axe Fx!
 
I suggest we all heed the wisdom of Powdered Toast Man when he exclaimed, "Cling tenaciously to my buttocks!".

KwtUbIh.gif
 
Hmmm...what was insinuated towards @bvaughn0402 and his post is not what I read at all. I can understand his anger stemming from that despite being told that whole "don't mean to be rude" irony. I feel like anger and frustration over this topic was being directed wrongly at this guy
 
@bvaughn0402

I hope we can all sort of reset things here and start over. We bassists need as much support as we can get, and I'm sure that @selta is very frustrated with FAS to the point where it can spill over into thread posts. I've also been guilty of this in the past (for suggesting that FAS create a "bass-only" version of the AxeFX Ultra once it was announced that firmware 11.0 would be the last of its development cycle, many, many years ago).

I agree that perhaps one of the biggest developments FAS could implement would be to seriously focus on the IR component. There are very distinct trademark tone signatures of various bass cabinets I've owned, and IMHO Fractal could really throw bassists a bone by providing a nice variety of UltraRes bass cabinets. It's not that what is available is awful, but just sort of...meh...and bland. Again, not that really good bass tones can't be achieved, but it takes some careful tweaking and enhancement to get there IMHO.

I own cab IRs from: Redwirez (SVT 8x10), Ownhammer (AMPG Bass 2x10 & 4x10), and ML SV Bass (4x10, FAS Cab Pack 11), and unfortunately gave up the ghost before I could try the Dr. Bonkers cab packs, which look like a nice set of IRs.

Though some of the IRs sounded really, really nice, what seems to be a common element is that they lack any sort of character. My real cabinets (SVT 8x10, SWR RedHead, old Acoustic 2x15) had quite a bit of character to them beyond what the head was providing for tone. The GK800RB combined with the original Hartke 4x10 was also very, very easy to identify IMO...and plenty of other examples.

FAS needs to make achieving these recognizable tones a much easier process, and they'll win over a lot of bassists who are very interested in 100% DI solutions for their live rigs and recording. More, better IRs is a start. More bass heads would be great. More bass-specific drives and effects would put them over-the-top (Darkglass, SansAmp, among others).

Unfortunately, barely a peep out of the FAS powers that be. It's a bummer.
 
Hi all. Fractal Audio is committed to bass players and will continue to look at future innovations to support what they do. As mentioned elsehwere, plans discussed earlier in this thread were put on hold. Meanwhile, this topic has changed course to the point where it would make more sense to start new threads for various spinoff discussions.
 
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-fx-ii-quantum-rev-9-00-firmware-release.131649/

From Quantum 9.0 release notes:

Added “Blackglass 7K” Drive model based on a Darkglass B7K. The model was obtained with the Attack and Grunt switches in the middle positions. The Grunt switch changes the low-cut frequency therefore the Low Cut control can be used to replicate this switch. The Attack switch controls a shelving filter on the input and can be replicated using the Tone control.
 
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