Cliff, Matt, et. al - A Serious Offer

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Well, I'm sure it won't be long before I'm banned or otherwise encouraged off of these forums, but I've reached my tipping point. As usual, about once or twice a week I'm asked about my opinion on Fractal products from a bass player's perspective. Here is something I just wrote to an individual asking about AX8 vs Helix on a very popular bass player forum online:
myself said:
Also, with point number 1... and this burns me up... Fractal seems to have no interest, at all, in supporting bass players or working on getting those foundational amps/FX pedals modeled. Many have asked Fractal to, and for about the past 6 months or so, bass players have just simply been ignored. I hope this changes at some point, but as it stands, Line6 is way more open and accomodating to bass players than Fractal. A shame, given what could be.... but that's the truth as of now.

And a further development is that I've been asked to give a 2-3 page demo/review for a magazine, again, of how these things are used in the real world by bass players. I kind of new this was coming, and it may have been related (in part) to starting this thread as well. I guess you could call it a test, or at least, a data point to be considered.
 
SeeD - I'd love to hear some thoughts on Helix vs Axe-Fx II. Especially if you can do demos with a real B7K vs. their model, and A/B the amps between the two units as well. I hate to continue the discussion here on Fractal's forum, since we're talking about a competitors product, though, hah.
 
SeeD - I'd love to hear some thoughts on Helix vs Axe-Fx II. Especially if you can do demos with a real B7K vs. their model, and A/B the amps between the two units as well. I hate to continue the discussion here on Fractal's forum, since we're talking about a competitors product, though, hah.

I'd be interested in that as well. Maybe we can start a private message about this?
 
I'd be interested in that as well. Maybe we can start a private message about this?
Wonderful idea. I've just started the "conversation" with us three. We can add more if people are interested, but I think keeping it small to start is a good idea.
 
The Acoustic is one of my favorite bass amps on the Helix. I think they nailed the top end that I have found missing on other Acoustic amp models (Zoom for instance).

They did a nice job with the GK and the Mesa Carbine as well.

I much prefer the Fractal SVT over the Helix's versions.
 
And a further development is that I've been asked to give a 2-3 page demo/review for a magazine, again, of how these things are used in the real world by bass players. I kind of new this was coming, and it may have been related (in part) to starting this thread as well. I guess you could call it a test, or at least, a data point to be considered.
Happy to answer any questions you have about my experiences crossing product lines or if you want to run any thoughts by me. In the past six months I've gigged the Helix, the Kemper, the AX-8, and the FX-8 with bass both in rock and worship scenarios.
 
Hi,i will try the Helix out the next days. So far i like it,with bass guitar
I made some Ir`s of the bass cabs. And i will do some Tone Matches,with my Dingwall.. and i will share it all ..soon :)

I think we can start a new thread in the Bass & Other Instruments section ?? It`s dead now a days
FAS dont even read what we writh here anyway,i think :)
 
Happy to answer any questions you have about my experiences crossing product lines or if you want to run any thoughts by me. In the past six months I've gigged the Helix, the Kemper, the AX-8, and the FX-8 with bass both in rock and worship scenarios.
Thanks! Do you happen to have a real B7K that you can A/B with the Helix's model? The B7K is so foundational to mine - and many, many other bassists - tone, that if the Helix has a great model of it, then I could ditch it off my pedal board.

The SVT model - can you elaborate on what is different between the two? As far as I'm aware, Fractal hasn't "quantum"-ified the SVT model and has no plans on it, so I'm curious there :). Any A/B recordings of similar (like-for-like) presets would be very welcome, too! Solo, and in a mix if you can. If not, no biggie at all.
 
As far as I'm aware, Fractal hasn't "quantum"-ified the SVT model and has no plans on it...
My understanding is that the Quantum firmware involves a new approach to tube modeling that affects every tube amp, SVT included.
 
My understanding is that the Quantum firmware involves a new approach to tube modeling that affects every tube amp, SVT included.
Ah, that is my misunderstanding then. I was under the impression that amps needed re-measured after the fact. Something that was loudly proclaimed to have been accomplished for every guitar amp, but not for any of the bass amps. I may be just conflating things.
 
Ah, that is my misunderstanding then. I was under the impression that amps needed re-measured after the fact. Something that was loudly proclaimed to have been accomplished for every guitar amp, but not for any of the bass amps. I may be just conflating things.
I think that was a G3 thing. Amps were being G3'ed right and left. Then Quantum came along, with improvements that rendered G3 obsolete. :)
 
I'm not a full bass player, but I record with it.

I've debated getting some pedals to record with ... but on the guitar side, everyone sings the praises of IR's over everything else.

With the bass IR's out there, wouldn't that be sufficient for a lot of stuff?

Or am I missing something? For example, wouldn't great SVT IR's basically trump any amp simulation improvements?

(By the way, I am ALL for more amp options)
 
I think that was a G3 thing. Amps were being G3'ed right and left. Then Quantum came along, with improvements that rendered G3 obsolete. :)
No no, this was recently. Like, within the past 6 - 9 months, Cliff was talking about re-measuring all of the amps. I'll see if I can find a thread on it later - it was in the main Axe-Fx II forum.

I'm not a full bass player, but I record with it.

I've debated getting some pedals to record with ... but on the guitar side, everyone sings the praises of IR's over everything else.

With the bass IR's out there, wouldn't that be sufficient for a lot of stuff?

Or am I missing something? For example, wouldn't great SVT IR's basically trump any amp simulation improvements?

(By the way, I am ALL for more amp options)
Wow, missing the point eh. Pretty typical for someone to chime in with "What you have is good enough". I'm surprised it took 136 posts for it to happen here. Normally, in the other forums, it's within 3 or 4 posts.
No, IRs are not good enough. Would it be "good enough" if Fractal didn't have any Tube Screamers? What about if it didn't have any Mesa amps? What if they only included a tiny handful of IRs and said "Good luck with only 3rd party IRs - we won't bother converting any factory guitar IRs to ultra res"? What if the models that are present for guitar were grossly inaccruate (as they are for bass amps)?

So, yes, you are missing a lot. As a person who doesn't play bass, you likely don't "get it". I don't mean to be rude, but I'm quite tired of being told - by guitarists, of all folks - that what I have is "good enough" and that I should be happy with what I have.
 
I think that was a G3 thing. Amps were being G3'ed right and left. Then Quantum came along, with improvements that rendered G3 obsolete. :)
Found it, it was just from March of this year:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-firmware-release.124944/page-23#post-1489501

Yeah, we discovered some fascinating things recently. I was reading a paper about measuring the distortion characteristics of microwave amplifiers and that led us to a new class of analytic signal that reveals a lot about the distortion characteristics of tube amps. The reason the release took so long is we had to remeasure nearly every amp and collect and enter this new data.

I'm so happy with the new modeling that I've removed the old algorithms to make space for new stuff. I had just finished a new optical compressor algorithm but it wouldn't fit into memory. Now it can. Sounds like an LA-2A (but maybe better).

It was asked, multiple times, if bass amps were remeasured, and no one ever said yes or no. So, it's possible that they were, but, given the experience in this thread and in general, I'd be surprised.
 
No no, this was recently. Like, within the past 6 - 9 months, Cliff was talking about re-measuring all of the amps. I'll see if I can find a thread on it later - it was in the main Axe-Fx II forum.


Wow, missing the point eh. Pretty typical for someone to chime in with "What you have is good enough". I'm surprised it took 136 posts for it to happen here. Normally, in the other forums, it's within 3 or 4 posts.
No, IRs are not good enough. Would it be "good enough" if Fractal didn't have any Tube Screamers? What about if it didn't have any Mesa amps? What if they only included a tiny handful of IRs and said "Good luck with only 3rd party IRs - we won't bother converting any factory guitar IRs to ultra res"? What if the models that are present for guitar were grossly inaccruate (as they are for bass amps)?

So, yes, you are missing a lot. As a person who doesn't play bass, you likely don't "get it". I don't mean to be rude, but I'm quite tired of being told - by guitarists, of all folks - that what I have is "good enough" and that I should be happy with what I have.
I think you're misinterpreting his comments...

He didn't say it was good enough, he asked... And he also compared it to guitar.

I think maybe he's not really aware of exactly what IRs are and are not capable of.

Of course, I may be wrong.

And for the record, I'm not a bassist except when I'm recording, and it's good enough for me... But I'm also aware of that my needs are limited and bass is not my primary instrument. And I'd feel the same way if somebody told me a POD was good enough :)
 
Happy to answer any questions you have about my experiences crossing product lines or if you want to run any thoughts by me. In the past six months I've gigged the Helix, the Kemper, the AX-8, and the FX-8 with bass both in rock and worship scenarios.

Thanks for your offer.

Which profiles did you use with the Kemper and which ones did you prefer? Did these include any pedals like B7k?
Talked to Ben Eller yesterday and he mentioned that since he got the latest Sansamp bass driver v2 from Tech21 that he used that solely straight into the Daw and wasn't using the Kemper anymore. :)
Not sure if that's a classification for the Kemper though. :D

Which Helix amp models/pedals did you prefer?

In general which modeler do you prefer and/or are you still using?
 
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