Clicks and pops from the noise gate in certain presets

P

pauly

Fractal Fanatic
[Edit] Hi @austinbuddy and @FractalAudio

I have found the following with a few presets in the old pack this evening - Currently, I've got 'High100W Plexi AX3' loaded and it's quite repeatable... but only with certain presets... this is a good example.
[/Edit]

AXE FX III Mk 2
Axe Edit III 1.08.01
Windows 10 2004 updated
Using Analog out to mixer
Midi foot control
USB for midi from computer

I've been noodling this evening and was playing a clean AB preset from his Gold pack, when I noticed clicks and pops happening occasionally. Sort of sounded like electrical clicks and pops but this room has a pretty clean supply.
Anyhow - This seems to happen with a number of these presets, and watching the Layout grid meters, I noticed when it happens that the 'Return' block registers the clicks and pops ... Nothing in the send block, nor any of the other blocks from the input to the send.

I cannot share one of the presets that's doing it, because they are commercial ... so I made a preset with just input->Send->Return->Output. That did not display the problem.

Then I went back to the offending preset, and turned the noise gate (on the input block) off (By minimising the threshold)... That got rid of it!....I experimented with increasing the attack and release times with no result. The noise gate type was the 'Intelligent', and the 'Noise reducer also does it'. Turning the noise gate on, causes clicks and pops!

So.. back to the test preset, add intelligent noise gate.... nothing.. no clicks and pops.

So.. Back to another AB gold pack preset... it does the same thing!... Disable the noise gate, fixed,,, enable it again... clicks and pops!

Then... to another preset... one of Burgs... It has the noise gate enabled, and a send/return, but no clicks and pops!

I'm stumped

FractalAudio -Could this be a bug? I don't know how, as it's only in AB's presets (that I've found) however it's very repeatable so maybe there's some secret sauce in his presets that's just the right conditions.

Thanks for listening
Pauly
 
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What are all the settings for the gate? If your attack and release are both really fast with a high ratio, you can sometimes get pops and artifacts as the gate opens and closes very quickly when the signal level is right around the threshold level. Slightly longer attack and release times slow the gate transition into more of a fast fade rather than an abrupt thump or pop. Lower ratio settings can make the transitions less abrupt too.
 
Hi Mr_fender,
Yes that was my thought too.
I’ve tried various gate settings from fast to slow attack and release times - same issue unfortunately.
Thanks
Pauly

mr_fender said:
What are all the settings for the gate? If your attack and release are both really fast with a high ratio, you can sometimes get pops and artifacts as the gate opens and closes very quickly when the signal level is right around the threshold level. Slightly longer attack and release times slow the gate transition into more of a fast fade rather than an abrupt thump or pop. Lower ratio settings can make the transitions less abrupt too.
Click to expand...
 
Hi @austinbuddy ,
Have you had a chance to check this out? Seems to be an issue with the gold pack Marshall’s. I’m not sure if it’s all of them but certainly consistent with the High100W Plexi AX3 preset. When I say consistent, I mean it’ll happen within 5 minutes.
Thanks
Pauly

pauly said:
[Edit] Hi @austinbuddy and @FractalAudio

I have found the following with a few presets in the old pack this evening - Currently, I've got 'High100W Plexi AX3' loaded and it's quite repeatable... but only with certain presets... this is a good example.
[/Edit]

AXE FX III Mk 2
Axe Edit III 1.08.01
Windows 10 2004 updated
Using Analog out to mixer
Midi foot control
USB for midi from computer

I've been noodling this evening and was playing a clean AB preset from his Gold pack, when I noticed clicks and pops happening occasionally. Sort of sounded like electrical clicks and pops but this room has a pretty clean supply.
Anyhow - This seems to happen with a number of these presets, and watching the Layout grid meters, I noticed when it happens that the 'Return' block registers the clicks and pops ... Nothing in the send block, nor any of the other blocks from the input to the send.

I cannot share one of the presets that's doing it, because they are commercial ... so I made a preset with just input->Send->Return->Output. That did not display the problem.

Then I went back to the offending preset, and turned the noise gate (on the input block) off (By minimising the threshold)... That got rid of it!....I experimented with increasing the attack and release times with no result. The noise gate type was the 'Intelligent', and the 'Noise reducer also does it'. Turning the noise gate on, causes clicks and pops!

So.. back to the test preset, add intelligent noise gate.... nothing.. no clicks and pops.

So.. Back to another AB gold pack preset... it does the same thing!... Disable the noise gate, fixed,,, enable it again... clicks and pops!

Then... to another preset... one of Burgs... It has the noise gate enabled, and a send/return, but no clicks and pops!

I'm stumped

FractalAudio -Could this be a bug? I don't know how, as it's only in AB's presets (that I've found) however it's very repeatable so maybe there's some secret sauce in his presets that's just the right conditions.

Thanks for listening
Pauly
Click to expand...
 
pauly said:
Hi Bruce - CPU is fine - 35.3%
Thanks
Pauly
Click to expand...
The CPU meter only reports on 1 of the 2 CPUs. I've experienced intermittant pops/crackles in the past when the other CPU (which does not have % status reporting) clips when 2 Amps are used in a preset in certain combinations with certain higher resource amp features turned on (ie output compression). It has not occurred for me in a while as Fractal addressed it in some specific related amps - after scratching my head a lot in the past over a few such cases (threads are still here somewhere), I'm now kind of hyper sensitve to keeping in mind what that 2nd "Amp Side" Cpu might be doing even thouugh the "fx side" CPU level reports a low %. Try removing the 2nd amp block and see if the pops dissapoear - if yes, then the cause would point possibly to "amp side Cpu" clipping .

fyi - as I understand it the 2nd cpu is responsible for other "system" functions as well as the amp blocks but its unknown to users what those functions are. You can guess that if changes you make are not impacting the "fx side" Cpu (the one with the visible % readout) that they could be getting handled by the "amp side" cpu. I would also think its possible that usage levels on either CPU and/or balancing accross both could change with new firmware releases.
 
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Hi @sprint,

Really?...That's a fact? That's a bit weird! Thanks for letting me know - I will give that a go when I get the chance, if the affected patches have 2 amps.
Will keep you posted.

Thanks
Pauly

sprint said:
The CPU meter only reports on 1 of the 2 CPUs. I've experienced intermittant pops/crackles in the past when the other CPU (which does not have % status reporting) clips when 2 Amps are used in a preset in certain combinations with certain higher resource amp features turned on (ie output compression). It has not occurred for me in a while as Fractal addressed it in some specific related amps - after scratching my head a lot in the past over a few such cases (threads are still here somewhere), I'm now kind of hyper sensitve to keeping in mind what that 2nd "Amp Side" Cpu might be doing even thouugh the "fx side" CPU level reports a low %. Try removing the 2nd amp block and see if the pops dissapoear - if yes, then the cause would point possibly to "amp side Cpu" clipping .

fyi - as I understand it the 2nd cpu is responsible for other "system" functions as well as the amp blocks but its unknown to users what those functions are. You can guess that if changes you make are not impacting the "fx side" Cpu (the one with the visible % readout) that they could be getting handled by the "amp side" cpu. I would also think its possible that usage levels on either CPU and/or balancing accross both could change with new firmware releases.
Click to expand...
 
pauly said:
Hi @austinbuddy ,
Have you had a chance to check this out? Seems to be an issue with the gold pack Marshall’s. I’m not sure if it’s all of them but certainly consistent with the High100W Plexi AX3 preset. When I say consistent, I mean it’ll happen within 5 minutes.
Thanks
Pauly
Click to expand...

Hey Pauly - Thanks for flagging, and I will take a look myself but I'm not getting that at all with the Intelligent Noise Gate myself. Some of the amps are pretty noisy and i have heard them crackle through a gate suddenly but it's rare. I try to set the gate so it's quiet but just above where you can hear the amp, so it doesn't affect the dynamics like when playing leads and try to choke off notes. I'm very closer to finishing off a firmware 14 Naked Amps Update then will turn my attention back to LiveGold and see what's up. Thanks!
 
pauly said:
Really?...That's a fact?
Click to expand...
It's my understanding of how it is (separate cpu for amps not part of cpu % reported). I don't see the architecture on this documented for users anywhere so I guess I could be wrong somehow, but it's fairly obvious given that when you add/remove amp blocks, the Ax3 cpu readout does not change - my understanding of it developed from working thru pop/crackle issues I had some time ago where I was posting to get advice (search my id - you can read thru some long threads on it), but as mentioned, I have not encountered it recently - and I run lot of presets with 2 amp blocks - just something I always check for.
 
I get the same thing. Intelligent or Noise Reducer gate with the threshold set to any level where it actually does something and it makes this weird fizzle/rattle sound on palm mutes. I'm using the classic gate right now but the other types would suit better if I could get them to work properly!

Messed with the attack/release controls and they don't seem to have any effect, it's the threshold level that seems to set it off for me.
 
JDR3009 said:
I get the same thing. Intelligent or Noise Reducer gate with the threshold set to any level where it actually does something and it makes this weird fizzle/rattle sound on palm mutes. I'm using the classic gate right now but the other types would suit better if I could get them to work properly!

Messed with the attack/release controls and they don't seem to have any effect, it's the threshold level that seems to set it off for me.
Click to expand...

I do recall Cliff suggested somewhere if you are doing a lot of palm mutes etc. to use the Classic gate....that it clamps down harder, faster I think?
 
pauly said:
Hi @austinbuddy ,
Have you had a chance to check this out? Seems to be an issue with the gold pack Marshall’s. I’m not sure if it’s all of them but certainly consistent with the High100W Plexi AX3 preset. When I say consistent, I mean it’ll happen within 5 minutes.
Thanks
Pauly
Click to expand...

@pauly - Hey amigo, I went through some presets tonight and I did hear this issue on just a few presets but not on most of them. Affected presets had some verb or delay on them too. You are correct, in that when I switched to Classic Noise gate they little clicks in background stopped. I was moving fast and didn't record which presets or anything, but did notice what you pointed out. Just not sure WHY and if it's not just noise gate but something in conjunction with other things...
 
hi jdr3009

yes I expect the little residual “fizzle” you get from the noise gate closing (great description by the way), but this is something different.
this is like there’s a light switch or something on the same circuit, but only in certain presets, and (it seems) only when using the Marshall amp types - I haven’t tried all amps of course but of the presets I tried, the only ones displaying this behavior was the marshalls.
it will be interesting to see what Austin comes up with.
thanks
pauly

JDR3009 said:
I get the same thing. Intelligent or Noise Reducer gate with the threshold set to any level where it actually does something and it makes this weird fizzle/rattle sound on palm mutes. I'm using the classic gate right now but the other types would suit better if I could get them to work properly!

Messed with the attack/release controls and they don't seem to have any effect, it's the threshold level that seems to set it off for me.
Click to expand...
 
Cool - so I’m not insane! Phew.
Yes this is a really unusual and interesting issue. I don’t know if it’s some “magic sauce” you’re using with the marshalls, or if it’s potentially in other amps... or even a subtle bug in the gate.
looking forward to your findings.
thanks for staying with it.
pauly


austinbuddy said:
@pauly - Hey amigo, I went through some presets tonight and I did hear this issue on just a few presets but not on most of them. Affected presets had some verb or delay on them too. You are correct, in that when I switched to Classic Noise gate they little clicks in background stopped. I was moving fast and didn't record which presets or anything, but did notice what you pointed out. Just not sure WHY and if it's not just noise gate but something in conjunction with other things...
Click to expand...
 
I have had that issue with Intelligent Noise Gate on the input block since I bought the Axe FX III whenever they first released. I'm pretty sure it has always done that depending on how you play. Classic with a ratio of 4.5 with fastest attack and release with the threshold set to taste has been perfect for any style I play. I believe Misha Mansoor has even brought it up in one of his Axe FX III videos about the issue with Intelligent.

Quick tip, just create a block library preset for the input block with some of your favorite gate settings when you're auditioning presets.
 
I've noted the same thing, narrowed it down to same source - seems to happen more on presets with Fender amps in the amp block, but the clicks happen in the input with intelligent noise gate (not classic) - but I'm hearing random clicks and only when the gate is open - this particular note is not about the fizzle I'm hearing on some patches (pre Beta 15 btw)
 
Hi @austinbuddy, @Robin Seaver & @FractalAudio

I've just loaded V15 firmware and the issue is fixed - Hey thanks Cliff!
Pauly


austinbuddy said:
@pauly - Hey amigo, I went through some presets tonight and I did hear this issue on just a few presets but not on most of them. Affected presets had some verb or delay on them too. You are correct, in that when I switched to Classic Noise gate they little clicks in background stopped. I was moving fast and didn't record which presets or anything, but did notice what you pointed out. Just not sure WHY and if it's not just noise gate but something in conjunction with other things...
Click to expand...
 
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