Clean Preset for Hot Humbucker

Overdrive

Overdrive

Inspired
I just got my first Axe, the Axe II, and I have a question about the clean presets and hot pickups. I have a Jackson RR1 with Suhr Doug Aldrich pickups, and the clean presets are dull, thunky sounding in the lower ranges (say, a G note on the low E string), and also too overdriven. The guitar can sound clean on my JVM's clean channel or a Fender amp, but not on the Axe. I have a friend who plays Strats, mostly single-coils, and of course the presets sound pristine for him.

Example patches where the lower notes especially sound dull and undefined include A003 Deluxe Verb, A018, Shiver Clean, A120 Deluxe Treatment, and A007 Plexi Normal.

I figure many others have metal/shredder guitars like me and wondered if you've experienced this, and if there's a specific setting or two that can be adjusted to make the clean presets sound better for hot humbuckers? I'm new to this and am a little intimidated by all the controller parameters and thought this might be a typical situation for many users, who'd already addressed this?

Thanks for any insight!

Mark
 
I've done some experimentation with pickups and pickup construction when I was working with Bulldog to design my signature models..

one of the things I found was that very hot pups tend to have ceramic magnets
whilst these sound great when you're riffing like a demon, they don't clean up well and can sound shrill and thin when soloing..
I too like pups at the hotter end of the spectrum but in the end opted for Alnico 5 magnets
they're not quite so hot, but hot enough.. this makes them better 'all rounders'..
so they'll be nice and tight for riffing, they'll clean up pretty good and be sweeter when you solo....

ok.. now that's out of the way....
yes you can tame the pups high output via the input trim so their hard driving effect will be reduced and the tone will be clean...
that said, try not to be too surprised if the tone you end up with is still not quite what you're looking for..
because very high gain pups tend to have a very specific voicing - they push the mids so they cut through the mix and produce a lot of top for that tight definition..

to overcome this you may want to consider placing an eq block [parametric would be better cos it's more 'tune-able'] before the amp block..
essentially you're using this to 're-voice' the pup prior to the amp block..
I'd suggest trying 'subtractive eq' - essentially cutting what you have too much off rather than boosting what's missing..
subtractive eq will by it's very nature reduce some of the high signal level..
maybe a reasonable starting point would be something like this:
Q = 1.5 [so it's quite wide and general]
freq = 1KHz [so it's targeting the mids]
gain = -6dB or more [so it scoops out the hot mids]

you may also want to consider taming the hi's around 3KHz with another band in the parametric
but don't overdo it [-3dB to -5dB] or you'll lose definition

to tame the level overall you have two choices:
1 - reduce the output level of the EQ block
2 - reduce the input trim

try both options to see if they create slightly different tonal / behavioural effects on the tone overall
maybe you'll end up doing a little of both??

Note: consider the settings I suggest as a starting point and then fine tune them by ear to taste..
 
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This is extremely helpful, thanks so much! I know you'll save me a lot of wasted time shooting in the dark.

I checked your music pages--exquisite playing! And composing.
 
haaa... glad to help....

and thanks loads for taking the time to scope out my choonz...
that's real cool of ya...
and all the cooler that you enjoyed my lil' compositions..

EDIT: just had another lil' thought...
if you manage to create an eq setup that creates the results you are after [or at least goes some way to limiting the damage]
save this block's config and give it a sensible name like 'clean-up pre-eq'
then you can easily recall it and pop it in front of all of the other clean presets you create without having to set it up from scratch every time..
I'm not sure though if you'll have to save this as a global block or if the Axe will let you simply save an individual block's config
someone that actually has an Axe will be better placed to answer that one...
and of course if it is possible it'll save you time and effort
 
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I went through this argument with my band mates. The guitar has a volume control on it .... at least mine does. I think they thought I should replace the HB's with TV Jones. That was with the Ultra. The AXE FX II is VERY responsive to the input signal.
 
insalacom said:
I went through this argument with my band mates. The guitar has a volume control on it .... at least mine does. I think they thought I should replace the HB's with TV Jones. That was with the Ultra. The AXE FX II is VERY responsive to the input signal.
Click to expand...

you have to note though that with most humbucking pups, when you turn down the volume on the guitar the top rolls off with the volume so the tone gets muddy [unless you have a guitar with the mod that let's the hi's through - like the Ibanez Jems]...

a better alternative if you don't use a really hi-gain tone is to leave the volume at max and play real soft..
you get a much more expressive performance that way...
but.... it take a lot more skill to be able to do it convincingly...
 
clarky said:
you have to note though that with most humbucking pups, when you turn down the volume on the guitar the top rolls off with the volume so the tone gets muddy [unless you have a guitar with the mod that let's the hi's through - like the Ibanez Jems]...

a better alternative if you don't use a really hi-gain tone is to leave the volume at max and play real soft..
you get a much more expressive performance that way...
but.... it take a lot more skill to be able to do it convincingly...
Click to expand...

They always claimed my tone was too much top anyway ... that's OK they were a couple of knuckle dragging Neanderthals … LOL
 
haaa...

personally, when it comes to 'control over tone' I prefer to never touch the guitar [apart for switching pups]..
I do absolutely everything via controllers...
that way you have the following advantages:
- your min / max settings are fixed and therefore predictable
- your hands stay where they should be... on the playing surfaces...
 
clarky said:
...personally, when it comes to 'control over tone' I prefer to never touch the guitar [apart for switching pups]...that way...your hands stay where they should be... on the playing surfaces...
Click to expand...
Ah, but the volume control is a playing surface. :)

Thanks for the insightful look into pickups, clarky.
 
Clarky: does this apply equally well to the Ultra? I need to learn how to use the PEQ and GEQ appropriately...I like the logic of subtractive eq'ing. my problem is i don't understand what bands/frequencies etc..correspond to what I am hearing and how exactly the PEQ is largely different to the Global EQ (my guess is the PEQ is a much finer eq adjustment within certain frequencies?) if anyone has a good resource/link to understanding some practical guidelines/info, i'd be grateful. Sorry don't mean to hijack but the thread caught my eye. I imagine there is some info buried somewhere in the forum along with Axe wiki...
 
I don't actually own an Axe yet.. what I've described applies to pretty much all multi-fx units that have a good level of controllability..

the GEQ and PEQ are very different animals.. again this is not specific to the Axe.. most reasonable quality fx-units will contain blocks that offer the same functionality..

Graphic EQ - this has multiple frequency bands that are fixed
if your guitar amp has 4 tone controls - bass, mid, treble, presence - you can think of this as being a 4 band GEQ..
each control effects a pretty wide range of frequencies... the 'width' [the frequencies it effects from lowest to highest] of the control is called the Q..
in a GEQ you can't change this.. an 8 band GEQ is more of the same but by having more bands you have more detailed control and each band's Q is therefore narrower..
think of an 8 band GEQ as having low bass, mid bass, high bass, low mid, mid, high mid, treble, presence
and likewise a 16 band GEQ would have even more controls with narrower Q values that sit in between those...
this being the case.. a GEQ is pretty simple to use..

a Parametric EQ is far more flexible but there are a few things you need to understand to get the best out of it..
each band has a Q control.. so you can change the width of the band.. low numbers are a wide EQ range and high numbers are very narrow..
this means that you can have very general EQ control with values from 1.0 or lower.. or make precise changes [usually corrective] with narrow values such as 1.8 and above..
The frequency control allows you to change 'where' in the frequency spectrum the band acts upon.. so unlike a GEQ, a PEQ band can effectively be moved up and down the frequency spectrum..
the first and last bands can also have their filter type altered.. whereas the inner bands use a 'bell shaped curve' to effect the frequency band.. the outer bands van be bell curves, hi-pass [let hi freq pass], low-pass [let low freqs pass] etc.. this allows yet more refinement..

frequencies important for guitar...
a guitar is actually a tenor instrument [despite all our music being written with a treble clef] so in general terms we can get pretty low [concert tuned]
our low E is just a little higher than the low C of a cello [which is a bass instrument]

the numbers I'm using here are just a rough guide
sub bass - this is below 80Hz.. guitars actually produce sounds lower than their lowest notes via sub-harmonics etc..
this can cause a loss of clarity.. many produces will cut everything below 50Hz to tighten the tone

bass - 100Hz to 400Hz this is where all the power is..
but too much will destroy your definition and make you sound woolly

low mids - 400Hz to 800Hz this is where your thump is..
if you want deep bass then scoop these... but beware.. a lack of these will get you lost in the mix..
the relationship between bass and low mids is critical
never los sight of the fact that your bassist provides the deep bass.. so often you can get away with less bass and more low mid, and between the two of you there will be plenty of low stuff in the mix..

mids are centred around 1KHz - this is what cuts you through the mix
too much and you'll sound nasal, not enough and you'll vanish in the mix

high mids - centred around 2.5KHz to 3KHz this is where you get your definition
too much and you get shrill, not enough and the leading edges of your notes will vanish
and it's for this reason that legato centric players [in the Satriani mould] like to roll off this band a little to 'warm up' and 'soften' the tone
whereas full-on riffers and alt-picking shredders like this band quite high to add attack and definition

treble is around the 5KHz area.. this adds all the sparkling highs.. too much becomes piercing.. too little takes the life out of the tone

presence ['air'] is from 7KHz or 8KHz and up.. guitars don't do a great deal up there.. some effects though will generate harmonics up there..
in the studio you'd use this on the mix overall or on cymbals / synths etc..
depending on the fx you have running in the chain you may want to mess with this to see if it adds or fixes something...
but I'd imagine that the impact to the tone overall would not be as strong as the treble bands...
 
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Anyone else think that Clarky's comments on EQ should be stickied?


I'm a high gain djent djent meedley meedely meedely type player...

Sent from my iPod.
 
I want the T-shirt... lol...

thought though... Edgy and Sibilant are not bad dwarves...
to make them into bad dwarves I'd replace them with Shrill and Hissy

and don't forget that if you set their levels right these freq bands also have nice dwarves
but because it's all about their relavite settings they're a little harder to name.. lol...

one man's 'warm' is another's wooly / muddy
and conversely one man's tight definition is another's shrill / toppy
 
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