Clean? Or really clean?

It seems that even a lot of the "clean" tones achieved by running direct into the board in the studio were not even
all that "clean."
 
JoKeR III said:
I also use a treble bleed capacitor so rolling off the volume control results in a little brighter tone than without. The values are guitar specific and usually half to 1/4th the value most I've seen recommended. I've found taking the time to find the 'right' value for the guitar/pickups yields a much more pleasing and natural roll off to my ears.
Click to expand...
In addition to guitar/pickups, you have to include the cable in the calculation of 'right' for the treble bypass cap. A good, low-capacitance cable loses less highs when you roll the volume back, and needs a smaller cap.

My PRS SE24 Standard came with a 180pF cap and 500k controls. Worked really well, but I switched it to '50s wiring, and pulled out the cap. The '50s wiring decouples the pickup from the load of the tone pot when you roll the volume back, which allows the pickup's high-frequency resonance to be a bit peakier as you roll the volume down, counteracting the dulling of the sound caused by cable capacitance. For me, this sounds better than the treble bypass....
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
In addition to guitar/pickups, you have to include the cable in the calculation of 'right' for the treble bypass cap. A good, low-capacitance cable loses less highs when you roll the volume back, and needs a smaller cap.

My PRS SE24 Standard came with a 180pF cap and 500k controls. Worked really well, but I switched it to '50s wiring, and pulled out the cap. The '50s wiring decouples the pickup from the load of the tone pot when you roll the volume back, which allows the pickup's high-frequency resonance to be a bit peakier as you roll the volume down, counteracting the dulling of the sound caused by cable capacitance. For me, this sounds better than the treble bypass....
Click to expand...

I tried the 50's wiring with my Les Paul but couldn't get it to do what you described. I know it is a 'thing' that allows for more tonal control over a LP type guitar. I may even still have it wired that way. But I could never get that thing to clean up and still can't even with a treble bleed. It's so odd. The pickups are Classic Plus &
Classic, which are PAF style. I've changed the pots, everything... The guitar only cleans (neck or bridge) on a clean channel. Period. It makes it a one trick pony to me, so it hangs on a wall so I can say I have a Les Paul. It's actually a great sounding guitar. Just not versatile. I'm thinking of selling it and getting a EVH striped. But then I won't have a Les Paul and all I'll play on the EVH is .....EVH.

I look at cleans 3 ways:
1. Fixx/Nile Rogers-ish - spanking cleans, which have a tad of dirt that's not noticeable. Like everyone above has mentioned you'd think it's real clean but it actually does have some dirt & compression.
2. 80's Roland clean - Very clean and usually needs a compressor (and I usually add a chorus or a crap ton of other modulated effects). I use the Roland 120 amp block and a compressor.
3. Hendrix/SRV clean - Ideally, I can get this by rolling back the volume on the guitar and switch to the neck or pos. 4 on a 5-way switch.
 
la noise said:
Loud clean-cleans hurt the ears more than any other type of loud. Yes or no?
Click to expand...
They are very spiky for their apparent loudness.

Short, sharp sounds tend to set off tinnitus for me instantly, as opposed to droning loud-ish taking a while to do so, so you may be right....
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
In addition to guitar/pickups, you have to include the cable in the calculation of 'right' for the treble bypass cap. A good, low-capacitance cable loses less highs when you roll the volume back, and needs a smaller cap.

My PRS SE24 Standard came with a 180pF cap and 500k controls. Worked really well, but I switched it to '50s wiring, and pulled out the cap. The '50s wiring decouples the pickup from the load of the tone pot when you roll the volume back, which allows the pickup's high-frequency resonance to be a bit peakier as you roll the volume down, counteracting the dulling of the sound caused by cable capacitance. For me, this sounds better than the treble bypass....
Click to expand...
No calculating here, I just use my ears. I'll sit down with a new (to me) guitar, or after replacing pickups, and a few capacitors, swapping values until it yields the desired result. I use the 50s wiring as well but can't say the difference has ever been that dramatic when rolling off the volume. To me, the result is more a 'open' sounding guitar, but not like adding a treble bleed circuit in my experience. Enough of a benefit though that it's a mod done on just about all of my guitars.
 
JoKeR III said:
I like the description Tim Pierce uses; a tone that "reads as clean". I typically use a tone slightly past the edge of breakup to crunchy, then use the volume control on the guitar with a compressor to dial in varying degrees of clean. The compressor is set just to retain a consistent overall level as the volume control is rolled off.

I also use a treble bleed capacitor so rolling off the volume control results in a little brighter tone than without. The values are guitar specific and usually half to 1/4th the value most I've seen recommended. I've found taking the time to find the 'right' value for the guitar/pickups yields a much more pleasing and natural roll off to my ears.
Click to expand...
Hello!
"The compressor is set just to retain a consistent overall level as the volume control is rolled off. "

I can't use the compressor properly.
Can I ask for help?
I want to achieve a similar setting.
So, a complete, compressor setting!
Thank you!
 
Jozsef Kiss said:
Hello!
"The compressor is set just to retain a consistent overall level as the volume control is rolled off. "

I can't use the compressor properly.
Can I ask for help?
I want to achieve a similar setting.
So, a complete, compressor setting!
Thank you!
Click to expand...
Using one of the Studio compressors, the only things I change are the Threshold and Ratio. Ratio is usually @ 3.0 and I adjust the Threshold with the guitar volume rolled off to get the desired level.
 
I like the Rockman clean tone sometimes but, as la noise stated.. it can hurt. Everyone seems to appreciate a little breakup.
 
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