Clark Kent: Redwirez Cab Mix Experiment

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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=1054252

Here we have one of my newest riffs played with different Redwirez cabs. The riff plays six times.

1.) Recto 4x12 0" CapEdge SM57
2.) Recto 4x12 0" CapEdge i5
3.) Uberkab 4x12 0" CapEdge SM57
4.) Recto 4x12 0" CapEdge with all mics
5.) My "Grand Lapse" IR
6.) LEFT: Recto 4x12 0" CapEdge SM57 | RIGHT: Uberkab 4x12 0" CapEdge SM57

There's one thing I have to say. The Grand Lapse IR doesn't sit in the mix quite like it should because I'm using a somewhat secret compression trick ( :) ) to make the guitars tight so this time I wouldn't have boosted the highs as much etc. Anyways that compression trick is something I can't use at rehearsals and at live gigs so I'm still using the Grand Lapse IRs... The trick is a bit too complicated to explain but you need Waves API for it so I guess it's not too important for me to explain it. :D Anyways... I didn't use lowcut or anything for the guitar tracks... just that compression trick and it takes care of all what's wrong with the guitar tracks.

Which one is your favorite?
 
I liked 3) the best, the Ubercab. Somehow it sounds less agressive than the Recto Cab, but it's "nicer" and smoother to hear. I think I'm gonna get the Ubercab IR's as well...
Did you use the RectoNew for the Amp Sim? Anything else in the Axe?
 
Feuersturm said:
I liked 3) the best, the Ubercab. Somehow it sounds less agressive than the Recto Cab, but it's "nicer" and smoother to hear. I think I'm gonna get the Ubercab IR's as well...
Did you use the RectoNew for the Amp Sim? Anything else in the Axe?

Yeah it's the Recto New with drive 6.5 bass 4 mids 5 treb 5 pres 0 bias 205. No post EQ or global EQ... everything is flat.

My ears are used to the 1) so that sounds right to me. Now that I've compared it a bit more I guess I like 6) the most. All the cabs have their own character and having these two amazing IRs together seems to give me the best overall tone and a cutting mid-range. The 3) has a bit more mids than I'm used to... It'd probably sound even better with less volume.
 
If its not too much to ask, could you also do a recording with some stock cabs just to compare? I'm interested to hear the recording with the following stock cabs

Mono Hires 4x12 Recto 1 & 4x12 Recto 2

stereo stock cab consisting of 4x12 German + 4x12 T75.

And a stereo stock cab of 4x12 JCM2000 + 4x12 T75.

thanks
Sam
 
Sounded like 6 different performances and not a re-amp. Regardless.... they all sounded about the same except for 3. I guess I liked 2 and 6 the best, definately 3 the least. The symbol and/hihat was sounding really horrible though... it definately got the mp3 treatment.
 
Although each one sounded good, I liked 6 the best. Just seamed to have more beaf with a little grit than the others. Probably 'cause I use 2 cabs on just about all my presets. Was 4 a mix of 1&2? I liked how the i5 brought out the upper mids for this growl in the power chords.

I've got to say Clark, you've got some killer sounding riffs going there. Like hear the finished product when your done.
 
emperor_black said:
For me, it was No. 2 followed by No. 5. Nice riff tho. Is that your own? What interface are you using to record?

Yeah, it's my riff. :) I'm using M-Audio Fast Track MK2 with the XLR input in this recording. I've done recordings with pro gear too and ofcourse this isn't as good as a tube mic pre but it works just fine.

emperor_black said:
If its not too much to ask, could you also do a recording with some stock cabs just to compare? I'm interested to hear the recording with the following stock cabs

Mono Hires 4x12 Recto 1 & 4x12 Recto 2

stereo stock cab consisting of 4x12 German + 4x12 T75.

And a stereo stock cab of 4x12 JCM2000 + 4x12 T75.

thanks
Sam

I'll see if I can do that today. IMO stock cabs work well too. F.ex. http://www.myspace.com/clarkkentjob <--- the three new songs have a pretty good guitar tone and it's only Das Metall + Cali cab. Those work well together since Das Metall has plenty mids and cali is overly scooped. BTW I'm the singer in that project. :)

Charlie Wardick said:
Sounded like 6 different performances and not a re-amp. Regardless.... they all sounded about the same except for 3. I guess I liked 2 and 6 the best, definately 3 the least. The symbol and/hihat was sounding really horrible though... it definately got the mp3 treatment.

I haven't tried the reamp thing yet. :) Might try it with the stock cab recording. Yeah those cymbals sounded loud no matter what I did. Then I thought whattaheck... this is just guitar tone search.

Axisman5150 said:
Although each one sounded good, I liked 6 the best. Just seamed to have more beaf with a little grit than the others. Probably 'cause I use 2 cabs on just about all my presets. Was 4 a mix of 1&2? I liked how the i5 brought out the upper mids for this growl in the power chords.

I've got to say Clark, you've got some killer sounding riffs going there. Like hear the finished product when your done.

I agree that the 6 has the fullest sound. I'm probably going to be using two cabs from now on. The 4 was mesa 4x12 with all of the mics in RW collection capedge 0" mixed together. Thanks for the compliments! I haven't actually finished the song yet but I hope it's still good with other riffs in it. :D
 
Clark Kent said:
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=1054252

Here we have one of my newest riffs played with different Redwirez cabs. The riff plays six times.

1.) Recto 4x12 0" CapEdge SM57
2.) Recto 4x12 0" CapEdge i5
3.) Uberkab 4x12 0" CapEdge SM57
4.) Recto 4x12 0" CapEdge with all mics
5.) My "Grand Lapse" IR
6.) LEFT: Recto 4x12 0" CapEdge SM57 | RIGHT: Uberkab 4x12 0" CapEdge SM57

There's one thing I have to say. The Grand Lapse IR doesn't sit in the mix quite like it should because I'm using a somewhat secret compression trick ( :) ) to make the guitars tight so this time I wouldn't have boosted the highs as much etc. Anyways that compression trick is something I can't use at rehearsals and at live gigs so I'm still using the Grand Lapse IRs... The trick is a bit too complicated to explain but you need Waves API for it so I guess it's not too important for me to explain it. :D Anyways... I didn't use lowcut or anything for the guitar tracks... just that compression trick and it takes care of all what's wrong with the guitar tracks.

Which one is your favorite?

I like 2 and 6 best, 2 seems to have a tighter low end and more highs, 6 is nice and even sounding. Awesome stuff!

I would be very interested to know the compression tricks used here if possible? I have the API collection as well as a UAD Quad and am always on the look out for mixing tricks :)

Cheers

Spence
 
xpenno said:
I like 2 and 6 best, 2 seems to have a tighter low end and more highs, 6 is nice and even sounding. Awesome stuff!

I would be very interested to know the compression tricks used here if possible? I have the API collection as well as a UAD Quad and am always on the look out for mixing tricks :)

Cheers

Spence

Sure! The trick is quite simple. I don't know why it makes the guitars sound so good but it removes some of the fizz and boomy low end while bringing out clarity. This is a trick that Tony Maserati uses for guitars... and I think it works well although he is more of an RNB engineer. (everything from Black Eyed Peas to Ricky Martin and J.Lo... and gangsta rap :D ) Might be basic compression but here it goes. Tone: MED, NORM, NEW | Thresh: depends on input volume... it's good when the red light stops blinking. Ratio: 4. Release: .5. Now the attack part is important because you need to have a different value for left and right guitars. I use 1ms L and 3ms R but that's just exactly the way Maserati has it. You should definately experiment with it because it depends a lot on the song you're mixing. Remember that you probably won't hear a big difference with just one track soloed. At least I hear a difference where my playing gets tighter and cleaner. It's more of a stereo trick... I noticed that having a similar compression on the bass track helped these two fit together. I like my bass tight so I had a shorter attack on the bass track.
 
Clark Kent said:
xpenno said:
I like 2 and 6 best, 2 seems to have a tighter low end and more highs, 6 is nice and even sounding. Awesome stuff!

I would be very interested to know the compression tricks used here if possible? I have the API collection as well as a UAD Quad and am always on the look out for mixing tricks :)

Cheers

Spence

Sure! The trick is quite simple. I don't know why it makes the guitars sound so good but it removes some of the fizz and boomy low end while bringing out clarity. This is a trick that Tony Maserati uses for guitars... and I think it works well although he is more of an RNB engineer. (everything from Black Eyed Peas to Ricky Martin and J.Lo... and gangsta rap :D ) Might be basic compression but here it goes. Tone: MED, NORM, NEW | Thresh: depends on input volume... it's good when the red light stops blinking. Ratio: 4. Release: .5. Now the attack part is important because you need to have a different value for left and right guitars. I use 1ms L and 3ms R but that's just exactly the way Maserati has it. You should definately experiment with it because it depends a lot on the song you're mixing. Remember that you probably won't hear a big difference with just one track soloed. At least I hear a difference where my playing gets tighter and cleaner. It's more of a stereo trick... I noticed that having a similar compression on the bass track helped these two fit together. I like my bass tight so I had a shorter attack on the bass track.

Great Stuff, I'll give this a try :)
 
I agree with xpenno, 2 sounds the best to me! Do you think you could upload the patch, I've tried to use the settings you have posted but my tone sounds muffled or over processed for lack of better trems.
 
SwambA said:
I agree with xpenno, 2 sounds the best to me! Do you think you could upload the patch, I've tried to use the settings you have posted but my tone sounds muffled or over processed for lack of better trems.

I don't know how to upload patches. I can't get Axe-edit to work with my Axe-Fx. :( Anyways the patch is really simple and if you don't sound the same then it probably has a lot to do with your guitar and input volume (which I have from 12-13 o'clock) etc. Remember that I'm playing a PRS so the sound is huge! And you should also pay attention to the fact that you might be accustomed to scooped metal tones and this isn't that scooped. So there's a lot of midrange so that the tone cuts in a mix so that would explain why it sounds weird. IMHO scooped guitar tones is something you should start avoiding... or atleast that's what I'm trying to do. There are other ways to make a guitar sound agressive like using modern guitar amp sims.

My amp settings: Recto New, Drive 6.5, Bass 4, Mid 5, Treb 5-5.75 (depending on guitar) brt on, pres 0, depth 0... bias 0.205. It's important to have your noise gate pretty tight. I usually have GATE settings in 12 o'clock but sometimes I drop the release down to 10ms to play some djent or whatnot.

I've been comparing thse clips with professional mixes that I really like both in metal music and pop music and the 1) seems to cut in a way that's somehow superior. Also the 3) seems to have a good clear high end but I probably need different amp settings to make that one sound even better. I'm recording some new cab/amp tests...
 
Ochanomizu said:
Oh, I thought you were quitting the forum back in April... viewtopic.php?f=18&t=15430

Guess you couldn't resist. ;)

Yeah I did quit actually.. been away for some time but I've got a loooooong vacation now and plenty of time so why not post here every once in a while. I probably won't be as active as I used to be.
 
I personally prefer 2...that sounds INCREDIBLE. Just huge, and cutting...almost like a slightly more gritty Stephen Carpenter tone, circa Around The Fur album.

6 sounds great, too, a little more....I dunno, spread, for lack of a better term...likely an effect of having the two cabs running, I suppose.

GREAT riff, by the way. Love the harmonic lines.
 
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