China

I'd love to but there simply aren't any companies left here. All the factories are gone. The last PCB manufacturer closed years ago.

I'm not a proponent of outsourcing but it's a necessary evil. If you don't outsource your price will not be competitive and you will fail as a company. Once the first company went overseas and gained an advantage everyone had to follow suit or perish.
 
FractalAudio said:
I'd love to but there simply aren't any companies left here. All the factories are gone. The last PCB manufacturer closed years ago.

I'm not a proponent of outsourcing but it's a necessary evil. If you don't outsource your price will not be competitive and you will fail as a company. Once the first company went overseas and gained an advantage everyone had to follow suit or perish.
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I know boards are tough. My employer built their own facility for manufacture and assembly because we're really big on making everything in the US. At a minimum, assembly could be done here. All kinds of those places around.
 
Is "PCB Manufacturing" in this context something beyond the actual PCB, like mounting all of the components?

There is at least one company that still makes the PCBs themselves. They aren't competitive unless "made in the USA" is a requirement.
 
FractalAudio said:
I'm not a proponent of outsourcing but it's a necessary evil. If you don't outsource your price will not be competitive and you will fail as a company. Once the first company went overseas and gained an advantage everyone had to follow suit or perish.
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Outsourcing and globalization has been "good" (and now a necessary evil) for corporations and consumers due to cheap labor leading to ever affordable tsunami of goods, but now we are largely dependent on foreign entities for our goods and supply chains which is bad for national security and our work force.

The pandemic has highlighted and exacerbated these issues and the fragility of global supply chains even more and maybe our gov't will fking do something for the citizens rather than for lobbyists, companies, and industries that don't need more loopholes, favors, and handouts (which both political parties have done). This is not a purely political (or partisan) problem but a systemic problem.
 
GaryRichie said:
So, how much more would you guys be willing to pay for Fractal products that are 100% made in USA? 5%? 10%?
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Up to 25%. Maybe up to 50% for locally produced goods or mom and pop shops.

Plus we don't need to have and consume as much stuff as we do. A lot of it is cheap stuff from overseas and just sits there.

But what is it with iPhones now $1000?? This slide up in price is baffling.
 
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yyz67 said:
Outsourcing and globalization has been "good" (and now a necessary evil) for corporations and consumers due to cheap labor leading to ever affordable tsunami of goods, but now we are largely dependent on foreign entities for our goods and supply chains which is bad for national security and our work force.
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Whether it's bad for national security depends on how you look at it. You're a lot less likely to have a war with a country that is a valuable trading partner.
 
GlennO said:
Whether it's bad for national security depends on how you look at it. You're a lot less likely to have a war with a country that is a valuable trading partner.
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Depends on how you look at it...if we are dependent on other Countries that do not share our values, they could at any time cut us off from critical
supplies and goods. Then what happens?
 
favance said:
Depends on how you look at it...if we are dependent on other Countries that do not share our values, they could at any time cut us off from critical
supplies and goods. Then what happens?
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The point is both parties are dependent on each other, so both parties would be reluctant to break the relationship. It's far from a perfect answer to how to keep the peace, but it certainly helps.
 
If it wasn't China, it would be India, or Indonesia.. Or back to Taiwan. Remember the days when "Made in Japan" was seen as the equivalent of "Made in China"? ...Remember back in the day when Made in Taiwan was seen in exactly the same way as Made in China?

Right now its China.. And when manufacturing in China is no-longer economically viable, it'll be "The Next Country" .. And that has already begun to occur.. And for as long as it's cheaper to make a product overseas - a product will be made overseas.

As for all the "Buy American!!" Rhetoric out there.. It's always been just that.. "Rhetoric" .. During the height of the "drape yourself in the flag and yell 'BUY AMERICAN!!!'" ..Walmart set aside isles in its stores to sell only Made in America "stuff" ..that lasted all of about two-weeks as nobody bought that higher-priced Made in America stuff.

For all the gen-pop patriotic claptrap - given the choice between supporting an America Business and saving a buck, nobody wanted to pay the higher prices.

A small company out there which sells a very expensive motorcycle lift - "Made in America" - except the bottle-jack, ...was ruthlessly pilloried because that bottle jack on that Made In America product was made in China .. So that company offered an upgrade to an American made bottle jack.. for about $25.00 more ...which nobody bought.

Keep in mind that that lift was a $500.00 lift.. which the Rabidly Patriotic Bikers Guild wouldn't spend $25.00 more on..

So get used to some tag reading "Made In ****** " .. because for all the blather.. Nobody wants to pay the price for American Made stuff. It's feel-good posturing for the most part.

Also to consider... World economies have evolved for the masses to afford a standard of living which is dependent on low-cost International Imports..

People appreciate the lower prices - Much more, and by MASSIVE percentages.. over paying much more for exactly the same thing..
 
levipeto said:
I would.
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You might.. But.. given a choice between two exact same things - differing sometimes greatly in price, most people ignore tags.

One of my Motorcycle Helmets is a Schuberth C3 Pro ..Back then, featuring brand new technologies and advancements - when I bought it, $750.00 I paid for it.. It's the helmet I'm wearing in my < < ...Avatar actually..

Now.. a rabidly "BUY AMERICAN! CHINA/Them Guys Suck!!" kinda guy on another forum, bought this .... "Made in Germany" C3 Pro lid direct from China.. $24.99 inc. free shipping he paid for it..

A lot of people like to think they would spend $750.00 on a quality piece of safety equipment - but then will immediately turn right-round and buy Made in China crap.

Now, not all stuff in China is Crap. But pirated $24.99 inc free shipping pieces of safety equipment shipped from China, Are.

By the numbers.. Americans can't afford American Made / Expensive, much-of-anything.

Looking at larger pictures, IF all manufacturing was again based in the 'States, All businesses in the 'States would need to improve wages to cover the additional cost of living for their workers.

Every 2-4 years, here, in the USA, people get keys stuck in their backs and are wound-up to vilify others, point fingers and lay blame. But on this one, there is no villian far from home. It's the consumer who can only afford so much. And the fault for that - if fault is to be allocated at-all, will, generally, lay at the feet of them winding them keys.
 
fractalz said:
No one can afford USA manufactured goods because all the high paying manufacturing jobs have left the country...

I think we did this one to ourselves...
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If you could snap your fingers - You - Right Now - if you could snap your fingers and return all manufacturing plants to the USA.. The economy in the USA, those plants, the businesses coexisting alongside them, would crumble pretty-much starting immediately.

Many people think about "American Manufacturing" in terms of "Back in the day" ... Well.. In Reality ..ToDay ..all those orders the USA used to get from international sources to manufacture stuff back-then (for example), would STILL be heading to China or the Cheapest Source of Stable Manufacturing..

American manufacturing wouldn't get that work.

It's not as simple as saying "Buy American" ..it never has been. The days of American Manufacturing are gone. Those same economic mechanics which allowed that hayday at all, are still in effect tho'.. See China.. See Taiwan, See Japan, See India, Indonesia etc..

The only possible way to get back to that heyday most people think of as the American manufacturing heyday, is, if sources of labor/w/materials supply slowly learn to compete with China or the lowest source for stable/quality manufacturing. And Nobody is gonna want that.

As a country we gotta quit this mindset of 'Ahhhh, yeah... but, Remember Yesteryear!" ..and adapt.

We gotta learn new tricks. Improve, Innovate, Create. As a country we can Lead there.. Ruminating on days gone by.. It doesn't solve a thing.
 
fractalz said:
I recall "Made In Japan" meaning superior quality. Sony electronics products ruled and Japanese cars were cheap and reliable. No one seemed to be complaining about the inexpensive consumer electronics then. Everyone had a Walkman, for example.
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I think you need to go back further.

In the days of Walkman, I'm pretty sure that "Made in Taiwan" was the stamp of cheap. ;)
 
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