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Change two blocks at once without scene?

FullThrottle64

Inspired
I've seen this question enough times that I begin to wonder whether the options "AMP1+CAB1" "AMP2+CAB2" might not be well-appreciated amongst the Effect Channel Functions list that can be assigned via the FCs.
See the post above. This is in the ballpark - IF - you can set the amp/cab blocks to ignore Scene changes.
 

paulmapp8306

Fractal Fanatic
See the post above. This is in the ballpark - IF - you can set the amp/cab blocks to ignore Scene changes.
I think its workable even if you CANT set them to ignore scene changes (as opposed to not really workable at present). It would be better if they could I agree.

Question though.

The work around for me (at present as things stand) I think will be a midi link cable, and use 4 Custom switches to generate midi CCs, then lops back tot he AFX3 and changes cab and amp blocks. Its a PITA as it used 4 of only 6 CSs in the first place. BUT it will obviously add delay to the switch. Anyone tried this and know how big that delay is??
 

simonp54

Experienced
I think its workable even if you CANT set them to ignore scene changes (as opposed to not really workable at present). It would be better if they could I agree.

Question though.

The work around for me (at present as things stand) I think will be a midi link cable, and use 4 Custom switches to generate midi CCs, then lops back tot he AFX3 and changes cab and amp blocks. Its a PITA as it used 4 of only 6 CSs in the first place. BUT it will obviously add delay to the switch. Anyone tried this and know how big that delay is??
not timed it, but creating a CC (3 byte?) midi message and sending it is pretty darn quick...
 

paulmapp8306

Fractal Fanatic
not timed it, but creating a CC (3 byte?) midi message and sending it is pretty darn quick...
yeh - its then got to do the round trip (again very quick) then react to the midi cc (again quick). It is going to add some mS though - and once you get past 10 or 11 it can get noticeable. There is already the delay from FC button press to AFX reacting - again very quick, but lots of quick delays you dont notice on their own add up to longer ones you do lol.

I mean - I can tell when playing a VST from a midi keyboard if latency is more than 10ms.. 20ms and its unplayable for me. OK switching things in the AFX isnt that critical so a lot more leeway - but you get why Im asking.

Guess Ill find out later next week.
 

mr_fender

Axe-Master
You could also maybe add something like a Morningstar MC3 or MC6 to send the MIDI commands externally. Would cost a bit more, but it could free up your control switches. MC6 would give you two extra switches for other uses too.
 

paulmapp8306

Fractal Fanatic
You could also maybe add something like a Morningstar MC3 or MC6 to send the MIDI commands externally. Would cost a bit more, but it could free up your control switches. MC6 would give you two extra switches for other uses too.
Yeh.... Ive considered it but I dont have the floor space at home for that. Its tight width wise already. Also adds to the cabling - the FC is one cable done. Adding more pure midi controllers adds power for them plus extra control cables. Not a great solution really.

Im seriously considering just sending the FC12 back and going for a proper 3rd party midi controller. I mean Im only 1 person 9though obviously this has come up a lot) but I honestly cant see a case where you WOULDNT want you amp and cap channels to switch together..... Even if you use the same cab you can just duplicate them in the channels and its fine. im sure there is a reason, just cant think of one off hand.
 

mr_fender

Axe-Master
Another trick is to use the cab block in stereo input mode with two of your preferred cabs loaded. You can then pan the output of the amp block to feed the desired cab alone for each amp block channel.

So if amp channel A is a Deluxe Reverb and channel B is Plexi, you can set your cab block to stereo input mode, load your 1x12 IR for the deluxe in the left channel and load your 4x12 IR for the plexi in the right channel. Now in channel A pan the amp block output hard left to feed only the 1x12 IR and in channel B pan it hard right to feed only the 4x12 IR. You can then use a single cab block channel for two amp block channels.
 

paulmapp8306

Fractal Fanatic
Another trick is to use the cab block in stereo input mode with two of your preferred cabs loaded. You can then pan the output of the amp block to feed the desired cab alone for each amp block channel.

So if amp channel A is a Deluxe Reverb and channel B is Plexi, you can set your cab block to stereo input mode, load your 1x12 IR for the deluxe in the left channel and load your 4x12 IR for the plexi in the right channel. Now in channel A pan the amp block output hard left to feed only the 1x12 IR and in channel B pan it hard right to feed only the 4x12 IR. You can then use a single cab block channel for two amp block channels.

Oooh. Now thats quite an elegant solution that Im quite liking. The only down side I see is (and this is only if the 3 works as the 2 does in this respect) is you couldnt use stereo FX like a ping pong delay. In the AFX2 you need a stereo cab to do that.

I think I could work with it though as Id only use stereo stuff in the studio - and real time switching is les important. You'd track each part individually anyway. For live when I need to feed an amp cab on stage (as I do - and where I wouldn't need to link the cab anyway as there wouldnt be one) and the desk for FOH (which would need the cab - hence needing a vol boost on multiple outputs with one switch) Id be in mono anyway...

I can see a use case where Id need more than 2 cab types. As Yek says you CAN just use one for all tones, as you would in most real amp setupts. One of the points of the AFX though is you not restricted to that and can basically have a DR combo plus a head and 4x12 with an amp switcher for a twin amp rig.

This option does seem the best Ive heard with the way the AFX currently is actually. Nice. Could use CSs for my most used FX and scenes as well for others. This might just work. Thanks.
 

paulmapp8306

Fractal Fanatic
I use a single cab with my three main Amp types (Deluxe Reverb and Euro Blue and Red).

Just like when I used a real Ecstasy.
As above. Of course you can do that. one point of the AFX is that you dont have to though. You can have a proper twin amp setup on stage with a DR combo plus a Marshal stack for instance.
 

mr_fender

Axe-Master
The II can do this too. Select stereo ultrares mode for the cab block.

You can still use stereo effects as long as your effects blocks are placed after the cab block. If you leave each IR panned center, you still get stereo output out of the cab block even though you're only feeding one channel.
 
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paulmapp8306

Fractal Fanatic
The II can do this too. Select stereo ultrares mode for the cab block.

You can still use stereo effects as long as you effects blocks are placed after the cab block. If you leave each IR panned center, you still get stereo output out of the cab block even though you're only feeding one channel.
wasnt aware of that. To be honest I dont use stereo often but do remember when I wanted pingpong I needed to convert my cab from a mono one to a stereo one. I assumed each cab output each side of the stereo pair to the input of the FX blocks. Might need to look at that more deeply - you dont tend to when you only use it occasionally.
 

JRod4928

Experienced
You could also maybe add something like a Morningstar MC3 or MC6 to send the MIDI commands externally. Would cost a bit more, but it could free up your control switches. MC6 would give you two extra switches for other uses too.

Hey uhh.... i know a guy where you can get one of those...
 
I've seen this question enough times that I begin to wonder whether the options "AMP1+CAB1" "AMP2+CAB2" might not be well-appreciated amongst the Effect Channel Functions list that can be assigned via the FCs.
That's a great idea! I haven't seen that! I was thinking something along the lines where say the amp block has a tab or extra linking option that keeps it simple with a link amp and cab channels, A to A, B to B, etc. but that FC idea could be great too! I wonder if it would be efficient to build into the blocks some how for switching in say Axe Edit if you're not using an FC. It seems like a lot of potential!
 
I also see where someone mentioned about switching amp channels in a rig where your amp channels change but the effects stay the same. I can relate to that a lot with on the fly moments in church, where I might want to switch from say a vox and alnico blues to a friedman with a 412, but keep the current effects the same. Then, when I need to have everything change and revert to a specific sound like friedman dry, or deluxe dry with an overdrive etc., then the scene button would be used. That would be mega rad; best of both worlds!

I understand Yek's way of doing it too by using the sam e cabinet for everything, which I have been doing for some time now, but I was thinking in terms of the authenticity of tones from a "purist" point of view if you will. Of course great sounds can be had either way.

It seems something like an option in the amp block to turn on cabinet linking of A to A, B to B, etc would be the easiest. That way it's not FC dependent. Maybe even combining the amp and cab block, which might not even be feasible or too much of a pain in the butt. It could make choosing cabinets and impedance curves quite easy though! Say all of the amp's parameter tabs on the left, and the Cab Parameters across the top. Just typing and thinking out loud haha
 

wulftone

Member
You can also throw the mixer block on there and mix between amp1+cab1 and amp2+cab2 via control switch or scene. I'm sure you could get into some interesting switching that way. Maybe combine that with the stereo cab idea. I haven't thought it through because I don't need this functionality. Interesting discussion anyway!
 

paulmapp8306

Fractal Fanatic
OK- well the stereo cab idea isnt working for me unfortunately. The problem is that Im getting some FX crossover. My cab block has to be the last in chain (as I take a direct fed as wall as a FRFR one). So post amp but p[re cab stereo blocks like reverb, you get the 100% wet signal to both sides of the cab input

If I was purely FRFR and could put the cab block immediately after the amp then is would work no problem.

I have got it all working using the midi link cable a CSs - but Im using 5 just to accomplish amp/cab channel changes and a global vol boost. I may have to use the last to bypass both drive and filter blocks as I always have (the filter is post amp and used to volume match between drive on and off).

I like the idea of the amp and cab channels being an option BUT I like the LINK idea more. Having a box that links Amp channels to the corresponding cab channel (amp 1 ch A to cab 1 Ch A .. or Amp 2 Ch C to cab 2 Ch C) just means you have the option to link or not and then just use a normal switch to channel change the amp. Saves 4 x CS switches to accomplish the same thing.
 

paulmapp8306

Fractal Fanatic
You can also throw the mixer block on there and mix between amp1+cab1 and amp2+cab2 via control switch or scene. I'm sure you could get into some interesting switching that way. Maybe combine that with the stereo cab idea. I haven't thought it through because I don't need this functionality. Interesting discussion anyway!
If your just using 2 cabs that would would as well I guess. Ill give that a try later (as for me I probably wouldnt use more than 2 - one 1/12 or 2/12 for clean and a 2x12 or 4x12 for dirty - and normally with 2 amp types rather than 4). wouldnt work if you were using 4 amps on 4 channels each with their own cabs though.
 

zionplayer

Inspired
As stated above, might not get everything you want but might be a step halfway for now. Have you tried the M-Plex? FXIII has the power, so maybe put Amp1/Cab1 in row 1 and Amp2/Cab2 in row 2, run both to M-plex, then to effects. FC chooses which Channel (ie - which Row) M-Plex uses as input select. I use a similar trick on several scenes in my setup as well, to extend scene functionality.
 
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