Change two blocks at once without scene?

[unix-guy]

Yes, that's what CS stands for in CS Midi........Control Switch..........

And guess what......it won't work unless you set the correct cc#s in both places.....

I know what the CS means. But you're using midi and an external midi cable to do it, not just a Control Switch.

So saying a Control Switch can change channels without providing the extra steps and details isn't really clear or accurate.

Anyway, it's a useful option if there's nothing else already using the midi jacks... Which is why it was posted in this thread back in 2021

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/change-two-blocks-at-once-without-scene.172515/post-2084956

 

[Rock Chalk]

I know what the CS means. But you're using midi and an external midi cable to do it, not just a Control Switch.

So saying a Control Switch can change channels without providing the extra steps and details isn't really clear or accurate.

Anyway, it's a useful option if there's nothing else already using the midi jacks... Which is why it was posted in this thread back in 2021

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/change-two-blocks-at-once-without-scene.172515/post-2084956

You know what....I give, you're right,,,,it's not a legitimate solution because it uses a loopback cable,,,, i'll just delete my replies and you can help the
guy out all yourself.....sheesh.

 

[JoKeR III]

Let me flip this idea, Is there a way to switch scenes but exclude an effect?
So for example - you switch from scene A to B but define that Delay 1 block is excluded, meaning that it keeps the state it was before the scene switch (if it was on, it stays on and vice versa)

Scene Revert and Scene Ignore can accomplish this.

Scene Revert 'off' retains a change to the bypass state of a block only in the scene the change was made. If the preset is saved with Delay 1 engaged in all scenes but you bypass it in Scene 1, Delay 1 will still be engaged when selecting Scenes 2-8 but will be bypassed whenever you return to Scene 1. This will persist until the preset is reloaded.

With Scene Ignore enabled, the bypass state of the block(s) will persist through all scenes.

Both of these features apply to any edits/changes to a block.

Yes they can......as long as you set the same cc# where I referenced, as the cc# you set in CS Midi in Axe Edit......I do it all the time. View attachment 133570

So they "can", just not the same procedure for configuring them as the typical footswitch assigning in FC Edit.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

That is using CS midi and a loopback midi cable.

But, yes, a Control Switch can send a midi payload such as a CC out of the midi out which can be looped back to the midi in with a midi cable. And that can change channels... Or whatever else you can control via midi.

The setup panel lives in the FC Controllers/Onboard Switches in the FM9. You have four commands you can send, so plan carefully. Would be nice to have more, but this many gives a fair number of possibilities.... Make sure you have MIDI Thru switched off if on one of the FM units, as the MIDI loop will take your FM and turn it into an unresponsive blinking mess.

The most common thing to want to switch together would probably be amp and cab, so you might use the same CC # for both of those in MIDI/Remote -> Channel for each amp/cab pair, then make sure to use Amp1 with Cab1 and Amp2 with Cab2.

I was using this to send CS stuff between units when I was running FM9 -> FX3 previously, and with careful choice of CC numbers on these and the ones in the FX3, was able to get the benefit of both sets of CS on both units for a total of 12 CS, which was cool. Since the channel setting thing responds to MIDI, you could even use an external MIDI CC switch provided by something like the Expression IO and a footswitch box. Downside is that it doesn't provide a nice on/off status LED thingie like a CS does (assuming you are not using a stand-in switch off the board for the CS).

If you don't need instant stomp-switch access to the channel switching, and you want to integrate this concept with Scenes, the MIDI Block is your friend. It can send 8 commands at once upon scene change, which is double what the CS MIDI can be set up for, and it is available for edit in *-Edit rather than having to get down low and poke it into the front panel. I feel a wish coming on for the -Edit to include this setup panel and the Bypass panel next to it in the -Edit proggy as tabs in the Setup button's panel. One thing to note is that you only get to see the 8 commands for the Scene that is currently active, so you have to switch scenes to see what's on each Scene's menu of commands to send.

In theory, using the MIDI block this way would only really be useful as a way of overriding the Scene Ignore in certain circumstances where you've landed on a channel with Scene Ignore set on and you want one particular Scene (or a number of particular Scenes) to be able to get the channel's attention....

 

[unix-guy]

You know what....I give, you're right,,,,it's not a legitimate solution because it uses a loopback cable,,,, i'll just delete my replies and you can help the
guy out all yourself.....sheesh.

I clearly said it was a legitimate solution.

My complaint with your post is that you said Control Switches can change channels and left it at that.

That is incomplete and will leave someone unaware of the additional requirements very confused.

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

The downside to using CS MIDI is that it is global - so CS3 will ALWAYS send the command to channel switch your junk on every preset. I sense yet another wish coming on that supersedes the prior one: Make CS MIDI settings part of each preset, so they can apply or not when needed instead of sacrificing a CS across ALL presets to do a thing you only need/want done on some of them.

 

[usersnoozer]

MIDI/Sysex controlling Amp/Cab blocks set to scene ignore.
That's the only real way to do this in the way OP and the other guy was imagining.

FC controllers are very good for a regimented "setlist" type of gig.
Custom MIDI/Sysex is much better for on the fly stuff.

 

[Phosphenetre]

You can use CS MIDI and a loopback cable

Is there no way for the loopback to be skipped and have the CS send MIDI to the Fractal unit internally? Like a CS that can 'talk directly' to my FM3 without needing a loopback cable, since it's already 'inside' the FM3. Conceptually, it seems logical that a 'switch' inside a device should be able to control something within the same device directly, instead of needing the commands to be sent outside the device and then back in.

The current setup of needing to use a MIDI loopback cable means you can't use CS MIDI and an external MIDI controller at the same time, unless the controller has MIDI Thru, and you don't mind having another MIDI cable be part of the setup (Fractal MIDI Out -> MIDI Controller MIDI In). It seems like an inelegant solution, vs the internal routing logic.

 

[mr_fender]

Currently, the loopback cable is the only way.

 

[Joshua_L]

Is there no way for the loopback to be skipped and have the CS send MIDI to the Fractal unit internally? Like a CS that can 'talk directly' to my FM3 without needing a loopback cable, since it's already 'inside' the FM3. Conceptually, it seems logical that a 'switch' inside a device should be able to control something within the same device directly, instead of needing the commands to be sent outside the device and then back in.

The current setup of needing to use a MIDI loopback cable means you can't use CS MIDI and an external MIDI controller at the same time, unless the controller has MIDI Thru, and you don't mind having another MIDI cable be part of the setup (Fractal MIDI Out -> MIDI Controller MIDI In). It seems like an inelegant solution, vs the internal routing logic.

I tried today with my xsonic Airstep midi controller.
I just added a cable fm3 midi out to Airstep midi in and it worked.

 

[Phosphenetre]

I tried today with my xsonic Airstep midi controller.
I just added a cable fm3 midi out to Airstep midi in and it worked.

To confirm then, this would require

1. A MIDI cable from the FM3 MIDI Out to the Airstep MIDI In, and

2. A MIDI cable from the Airstep MIDI Out to the FM3 MIDI In OR a Bluetooth MIDI adapter on the FM3 MIDI In for the Airstep to witelessly communicate with

Is that correct? Including the power supply for the Airstep, that's a total of 3 connections, which is more cumbersome for stage use than ideal, especially if you have fast load-in/load-out requirements and don't want to mount all of these on a single pedalboard with some sort of common power supply solution or power strip.

 

[Joshua_L]

To confirm then, this would require

1. A MIDI cable from the FM3 MIDI Out to the Airstep MIDI In, and

2. A MIDI cable from the Airstep MIDI Out to the FM3 MIDI In OR a Bluetooth MIDI adapter on the FM3 MIDI In for the Airstep to witelessly communicate with

Is that correct? Including the power supply for the Airstep, that's a total of 3 connections, which is more cumbersome for stage use than ideal, especially if you have fast load-in/load-out requirements and don't want to mount all of these on a single pedalboard with some sort of common power supply solution or power strip.

This is correct.

I don’t use midi Bluetooth on the fm3.
The Airstep is already Bluetooth and let met select preset/scenes each time I chose a song on my iPad with forscore.

Just 2 midi cables.

The Airstep has a battery. No power supply needed. Just need to charge it with usb before.

I you don’t have a fixed pedalboard, it’s just plugin 2 midi cables.

 

[Phosphenetre]

This is correct.

I don’t use midi Bluetooth on the fm3.
The Airstep is already Bluetooth and let met select preset/scenes each time I chose a song on my iPad with forscore.

Just 2 midi cables.

The Airstep has a battery. No power supply needed. Just need to charge it with usb before.

I you don’t have a fixed pedalboard, it’s just plugin 2 midi cables.

So you don't use the Airstep to control the FM3 then, but only for your iPad?

This is correct.

I don’t use midi Bluetooth on the fm3.
The Airstep is already Bluetooth and let met select preset/scenes each time I chose a song on my iPad with forscore.

Just 2 midi cables.

The Airstep has a battery. No power supply needed. Just need to charge it with usb before.

I you don’t have a fixed pedalboard, it’s just plugin 2 midi cables.

Oh yes, forgot about the Airstep's internal battery. How has battery life been for you, in terms of hours of use before needing to charge again?

The thing with non-user replaceable batteries for me is that the device pretty much has a 3 - 5 year shelf life, given that battery wear and capacity loss is a thing and it stops being able to hold a reasonable charge after several years of regular use.

 

[Joshua_L]

So you don't use the Airstep to control the FM3 then, but only for your iPad?


Oh yes, forgot about the Airstep's internal battery. How has battery life been for you, in terms of hours of use before needing to charge again?

The thing with non-user replaceable batteries for me is that the device pretty much has a 3 - 5 year shelf life, given that battery wear and capacity loss is a thing and it stops being able to hold a reasonable charge after several years of regular use.

I use the Airstep to select scenes on the fm3.
I have five mains scenes on 1 to 5 switches and 3 others on hold.

Use change a lot our setlist sometimes like 5 minutes before the show, so in forscore each time a select a song it sends the preset number, the first scene number I need and engage all the effect I want when it’s on my kitchen sink preset.

I didn’t count how long the battery of the airstep holds but it’s really a long time, multiple days without any problems.

It’s battery so maybe one day that one will die but honestly the Airstep is unbeatable for quality/price ratio.