Change two blocks at once without scene?

T

Thenewexhibit

Experienced
Hi! I think I may have seen this discussed somewhere else, but is there a way to change two blocks at once with the FC 12 without using a scene?

My main question is in regards to amps and cabinets. I feel like you get a lot of flexibility out of using different IRs for different amps, for example, a tweed deluxe with a 112 IR and a Friedman with a Mesa IR, but when you go to change the channel of an amp, you'll then have the Friedman going through the 112 and not the 412 or vice versa.

Being able to change that like a two amp rig with an A/B switcher would be awesome for me because I do a lot of church services and depending on where the Holy Spirit takes you, you may need to jump from a clean tone with delay and reverb to a different amp with the same delay and reverb, but it's kind of impossible to plan for since it's spontaneous. Is there a way to do that?
 
You don't say what you want to change on these blocks. Are you talking about channels? If so, then no, there is no way to do that with the FCs currently except by scene change.
 
Assign a switch to toggle channels of the Amp block (i.e. Channels A and B). You can assign the hold function of the switch to Channel C giving you 3 amp options with one switch. Tapping the switch again takes you back to your main channel.

For these moments, I usually have a switch assigned to an ambient scene in another layout that's easy to get to. Having a dedicated drive can also work well, there are some great overdrives in the Axe III- I prefer the Jamray and Super OD with the Nuclear Tone. Assigning the Channel Toggle to the hold function makes it more versatile by giving you 2 drives to choose from.

A Control Switch will allow you to change 2 or more blocks with one switch.
 
Same question/problem I have and I don't have the gear yet (upgrading from the 2, will be here next week).

Multi channel switching at present means using a control switch, setting that to generate a midi cc, using a midi link from midi out to in (send it back to itself) and assigning can and amp channels that way (with an fc).

If you not using an fc pedal but a generic midi pedal itsva lot easier. Generate the cc direct on the controller.

You CAN bypass/activate multiple blocks without the midi trick though (so 2 amp blocks in parallell with their dedicated cab directly after them). Its still a control switch but you can do the toggling directly in the afx3 menu.

Took me about 10 mins of planning my new layout/switching option to find this, frankly almost system breaking, flaw... while the fc is nice with its FUNCTIONS its gone backwards compared to the mfc101 as an actual CONTROLLER.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
Same question/problem I have and I don't have the gear yet (upgrading from the 2, will be here next week).

Multi channel switching at present means using a control switch, setting that to generate a midi cc, using a midi link from midi out to in (send it back to itself) and assigning can and amp channels that way (with an fc).

If you not using an fc pedal but a generic midi pedal itsva lot easier. Generate the cc direct on the controller.

You CAN bypass/activate multiple blocks without the midi trick though (so 2 amp blocks in parallell with their dedicated cab directly after them). Its still a control switch but you can do the toggling directly in the afx3 menu.

Took me about 10 mins of planning my new layout/switching option to find this, frankly almost system breaking, flaw... while the fc is nice with its FUNCTIONS its gone backwards compared to the mfc101 as an actual CONTROLLER.
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Yes. I ended up going with a MIDI board instead of the FC-12 so that I can select multiple channels and block bypass states with a single press.
 
unix-guy said:
You don't say what you want to change on these blocks. Are you talking about channels? If so, then no, there is no way to do that with the FCs currently except by scene change.
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Shoot, my bad! For me, I really am just concerned with amps and cabinets, similar to how one would have an A/B/C amp switcher; if your clean was a super reverb, it would be mic'd up on a 4x10, if you switch to a marshall half stack, it would be mic'd up on a 412, if you switched to a vox, it would be on a 212, etc.
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Oh, got ya! I wonder if there are any plans for the FC pedalboards to accomplish this, or if that's even feasible with FC series?
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The FCs dont generate midi commands is the problem. There an extension to the AFX rather than a separate unit communicating with it. THAT can send midi commands - but not to itself..... and only on scene change OR with a control switch..of which you only get 6.

I mean - its fantastic at what it DOES do - but it is limited with some things a normal midi controller could do 20 years ago. WEll see I guess.
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Shoot, my bad! For me, I really am just concerned with amps and cabinets, similar to how one would have an A/B/C amp switcher; if your clean was a super reverb, it would be mic'd up on a 4x10, if you switch to a marshall half stack, it would be mic'd up on a 412, if you switched to a vox, it would be on a 212, etc.
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Right, this is what I am doing with MIDI SysEx commands.
 
I feel like there's a solution here by using Control Switches to send a midi command, loop a midi cable from fm3 in and out, and then assign the midi command to toggle the 2 pedals to turn off/on simultaneously all within the same scene.
 
Flip your approach. Use scenes to switch both amp and cab as needed, then use control switches to turn effects on and off independent of scenes as needed. A single control switch can be assigned to multiple block bypass parameters if needed. With 4 channels per block and 8 scenes total, that's two scenes per amp and cab combo, so you could do one dry and one with FX or whatever.

A more efficient approach is to further divide your tones into separate presets. How many combinations of amps, cabs, and effects do you really need for any given song. Kitchen sink presets are very inefficient from a CPU load perspective. Don't try to do it all in one preset. There's really no need.
 
mr_fender said:
Flip your approach. Use scenes to switch both amp and cab as needed, then use control switches to turn effects on and off independent of scenes as needed. A single control switch can be assigned to multiple block bypass parameters if needed. With 4 channels per block and 8 scenes total, that's two scenes per amp and cab combo, so you could do one dry and one with FX or whatever.

A more efficient approach is to further divide your tones into separate presets. How many combinations of amps, cabs, and effects do you really need for any given song. Kitchen sink presets are very inefficient from a CPU load perspective. Don't try to do it all in one preset. There's really no need.
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I'm not a fan of scenes, and they don't work for me. What we do isn't "planned" as such. We often medly on the fly, or extend and need more things. Using one preset per song (which I do as a keys player usually) doesn't work. The "kitchen sink" or rather virtual pedal board system Does work....very well. For me cpu won't be a problem....if my afx2 handles it fine the afx3 should breeze it. At the end of the day, you shouldn't have to change your preferred working methodology to suit gear, the gear should work for your methodology.

I'm very free form and as such if a (for instance) delay is on and I switch Amps I need the delay to stay on. If the delay if off and I switch I need it to stay off.

So, while scenes fix the amp/can issue they add an fx block state problem.

Aa has been requested, being able to make blocks independant scenes would actually solve everything.

At present though scenes arnt an option.

The midi link cable is how I intend to get round it. The limit thete is control switches....you only have 6.

I'll need 4 for amp/cab switching (1 per channel) and another for global volume boost (that is a clean vol boost on all outputs with 1 switch....something else the afx2/101 does that afx3/fc doesnt). Only leaves 1 for patch specific functions.

More Cs would help...though I'd still need the midi link. I woukd be happy with blocks independent of scenes (preferably) or more Cs...bit one of those needs to happen quickly.

There is another potential issue with the midi link option, which is speed. Instead of generating a midi cc on controller, pass data up cable, and unit reacting that's normal.. in this case you generate a Cs message, goes up cable, afx reacts THEN has to generate midi data, sends it out, receives it and reacts. That at least doubles the time from bottom press to switch. Might be OK but might be a bit sluggish. Time will test here.


As it stands, I think the fc12 will get returned and I'll keep using the mfc101. Its still a backward step as I'll loose 2 way comes...so no 2 colour leds, no auto patch names, and no tuner display BUT at least I can control things correctly.

It's not a small problem. I know 2 people who bought afx3/fc and returned them (going to helix) because of these control limitations and another afx2/mfc user who's not upgrading due to the same limitations. OK in his case, he triggers lighting from cc messages tied to his patch switching. He can't do thstvso well with fc/afx3 as he could only do it on scene change or when using Cs. Its not enough control.
 
paranoid said:
why not just use scenes?
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Nowhere near as flexible as a basic amp channel switcher combined with a multiFX.

Combine a basic multiFX that gives instant access to 10 FX patches and a three-channel amp (like my Bogner) and you have 30 sound combinations on tap instantly with no more than 2 presses. What's more important is that it allows you to separate control of the basic amp/gain selection from the FX patches. Scenes will not allow you to separate selection of FX from selection of amp channel.

FC will not do this, but it's possible with the more capable MIDI controllers.

This is a core usability issue with both Fractal and Kemper.
 
Fc isn't a midi controller..... that's the problem.

It's a floor extension of the afx and directly changes things. If you need a midi command its the afx itself that generates it not the fc....

Unfortunately with midi controllers (Inc the mfc101) you loose 2 ways comms (because thets no midi comms between units). So no auto patch names, no tuner display, no multi colour leds etc.

In many ways .. in this area..the afx3 is a backward step from afx whichever controller you use.
 
There is an obvious way to separate AMP from FX on an FC-6 or FC-12. Just assign a switch to EFFECT > CHANNEL INC/DEC > AMP. This lets you switch through the channels of the AMP block. Caveats:
  • This isn't linked to the CAB block, so you're stuck on a single cab, which may or may not be a problem. Requests for linking have been submitted.
  • It requires multiple presses to go from A to C or D (= time / gaps / sound). The GT has solved this by presenting a channel menu.
 
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mr_fender said:
A more efficient approach is to further divide your tones into separate presets. How many combinations of amps, cabs, and effects do you really need for any given song. Kitchen sink presets are very inefficient from a CPU load perspective. Don't try to do it all in one preset. There's really no need.
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You can absolutely do this with a kitchen sink preset, and AFX3 has a LOT of CPU available.

Many of us who do a variety of gigs work in terms of sounds, not "songs". Many of my gigs are one-offs, and it's far more productive to work from a basic library of sounds than to try to build unique preset for every weekend.
 
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