Celestion F12-X200

To better put my question: How does a real v30 compare to a v30 IR through the f12-x200?
Well it will not be exactly the same, as the V30 IR version will be mic'd and the mic changes the sound a bit depending on what mic is used and its location to the actual speaker when creating the IR. This is going to be true for most modelers using cab/speaker IRs. The F12-x200 is not a flat speaker but is somewhere in between a PA type and a guitar speaker.
 
I would not call the F12-X200 100 % FRFR. They have a certain "hump" and beam, imho, that is very untypical for the other FRFR-coax speakers I have heard till now. They have a bit more "guitar speaker feel" than others, but they still need IRs to not crush your eardrums.
That has been exactly my experience so far with the F12-X200. All you have to do to notice this is play music (not guitar) thru them. I have also done RTA measurements close up and at various distances that show the hump in the upper mids (3-4K). Not saying this is a bad speaker for a modeler but it does not seem to be designed like a PA type speaker etc. Again I think it is trying to bridge the gap between what a normal guitar speaker is and a PA type. I have also listened to this speaker vs several active monitors via an FM3 and it does seem to have a more guitar amp like character to it. However it really depends on a whole host of signal path variables including the cab IR chosen etc. The whole FRFR thing is really a rabbit hole one can fall into if fixated totally on copying exactly a certain real guitar speaker or amp sound. All in all I think that the F12-X200 is a decent option for a modeler setup and to some extent you are not tied down to a certain cabinet or power amp etc.
 
That has been exactly my experience so far with the F12-X200. All you have to do to notice this is play music (not guitar) thru them.
Thats why I kept my pair of Headrush frfr12. Backing tracks sound killer through them....the guitar/Axefx3 not so much. The F12 starts rolling off too much around 100hz to be good for a whole mix. However, it's frequency response is perfect for guitar cab IRs and I still have to use low/high cuts because it is surprisingly flat from 100 on up. At least my Headrush purchase wasn't a complete waste of money.
 
Thats why I kept my pair of Headrush frfr12. Backing tracks sound killer through them....the guitar/Axefx3 not so much. The F12 starts rolling off too much around 100hz to be good for a whole mix. However, it's frequency response is perfect for guitar cab IRs and I still have to use low/high cuts because it is surprisingly flat from 100 on up. At least my Headrush purchase wasn't a complete waste of money.
Yeah, I was really surprised by the music sound when played thru the F12. It really is almost unusable for that purpose. That kind of was a drawback for me as I sometimes use a boss looper that can play out drum tracks along with the guitar or instrument input. A PA style (FRFR?) wedge setup might be better for that purpose. The F12 is also is not that great for bass guitar reproduction. So I think it depends on what you are using it for. Just as a guitar modeler reproduction setup it is a good option.
 
I think it is trying to bridge the gap between what a normal guitar speaker is and a PA type.
That was what I gathered when reading about it. Celestion made their name with guitar speakers so, to me, it makes sense that they'd continue that to a point, even in their "FRFR" solution. Possibly their "Pro-Audio" K12H-100TC speaker would be more of an FRFR solution.
 
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Yeah, I was really surprised by the music sound when played thru the F12. It really is almost unusable for that purpose. That kind of was a drawback for me as I sometimes use a boss looper that can play out drum tracks along with the guitar or instrument input. A PA style (FRFR?) wedge setup might be better for that purpose. The F12 is also is not that great for bass guitar reproduction. So I think it depends on what you are using it for. Just as a guitar modeler reproduction setup it is a good option.
Im using my Axefx3 as an interface and have both sets of speakers on different outputs with separate signal chains in the Axefx3. Only guitar playthrough goes to my celestion cabs and DAW playback/drum tracks through both Headrush and Yamaha studio monitors. Celestions on stands separated about 17ft left/right with headrush hanging from ceiling above each. Studio monitors directly in front. Creates a very immersive jamming experience....Very happy with it.
 
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Now, it's a logical consequence, in the moment they go off the usual way and take different materials and a different way of construction to make it sound like a guitar speaker, they don't use their best known ways to built a good allround speaker in that moment.
 
That has been exactly my experience so far with the F12-X200. All you have to do to notice this is play music (not guitar) thru them. I have also done RTA measurements close up and at various distances that show the hump in the upper mids (3-4K). Not saying this is a bad speaker for a modeler but it does not seem to be designed like a PA type speaker etc. Again I think it is trying to bridge the gap between what a normal guitar speaker is and a PA type. I have also listened to this speaker vs several active monitors via an FM3 and it does seem to have a more guitar amp like character to it. However it really depends on a whole host of signal path variables including the cab IR chosen etc. The whole FRFR thing is really a rabbit hole one can fall into if fixated totally on copying exactly a certain real guitar speaker or amp sound. All in all I think that the F12-X200 is a decent option for a modeler setup and to some extent you are not tied down to a certain cabinet or power amp etc.

I mean....they also don't call it FRFR.

They call it Full Range, Live Response.
 
I’m not gigging and at jams I’m not going through the PA. For you guys that are using the F12’s live, do they sound different than the feed to FOH?
 
I’m not gigging and at jams I’m not going through the PA. For you guys that are using the F12’s live, do they sound different than the feed to FOH?
That's really the fundamental question, if you want to use it for stage monitoring, while also feeding foh direct.

If you're not doing that, then I guess so that matters is whether you like how it sounds.
 
That's really the fundamental question, if you want to use it for stage monitoring, while also feeding foh direct.

If you're not doing that, then I guess so that matters is whether you like how it sounds.
That's really the fundamental question, if you want to use it for stage monitoring, while also feeding foh direct.

If you're not doing that, then I guess so that matters is whether you like how it sounds.

I’m happy with it. Just curious about whether presets adjusted for a F12 need correction for FOH. I have tried going into the PA at our jam. I didn’t like it much, mostly because the room is an untreated long loft and it gets messy.
 
I’m happy with it. Just curious about whether presets adjusted for a F12 need correction for FOH. I have tried going into the PA at our jam. I didn’t like it much, mostly because the room is an untreated long loft and it gets messy.
I’m not gigging and at jams I’m not going through the PA. For you guys that are using the F12’s live, do they sound different than the feed to FOH?

This is theoretical...but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

If for no other reason, they'll sound different than FOH because of how they interact with the room.

Theoretically, dealing with that kind of thing is part of the sound guy's job. But, if you use separate outputs, you can also at least EQ them separately yourself to bring the most out of both.
 
I'm giving the FX12-X200 a try. Ported cab, tilted up with a big heavy rubber wheel chock. So far, it just sounds more...for lack of a better term..."solid" than a monitor to me . I think the trade off is giving up some subtlety and detail though. Not sure if it's here to stay.
 
I’m happy with it. Just curious about whether presets adjusted for a F12 need correction for FOH. I have tried going into the PA at our jam. I didn’t like it much, mostly because the room is an untreated long loft and it gets messy.
I run 2 of them in 112s. I correct nothing and FOH sounds great to my ears.
 
I think you shouldn't use any FRFR cabinet that hasn't been EQ corrected for flatness. I was able to get my F12-X200 flatter than my Atomic CLRs.


FX12-200 31 Band EQ VS Atomic CLR.jpg
 
I think you shouldn't use any FRFR cabinet that hasn't been EQ corrected for flatness. I was able to get my F12-X200 flatter than my Atomic CLRs.

I honestly have mixed feelings. If the FRFR is significantly flawed, sure. Otherwise, you're correcting it for playing at one spot in one room and it'll have similar kinds of errors when you move to another....especially if you correct it at home and then take it to a practice/performance space that's probably a lot bigger.
 
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