Celestion F12-X200

Don't you just flip the pos/neg on one of the speakers in a 2 x 12 to make them in
phase rather than out---thereby eliminating the comb filtering?
 
Don't you just flip the pos/neg on one of the speakers in a 2 x 12 to make them in
phase rather than out---thereby eliminating the comb filtering?
No, WITHOUT flipping the polarity of the wiring, the speakers are in phase (they move in the same direction), and if the listener is not exactly equidistant from both speakers, then the sound from each speaker arrives at the listener at slightly different times.
Since every frequency has its own wavelength, that means that the timing difference of the two sounds arriving at the listener will occur at different points in the wavelength for each frequency. Some frequencies will therefor cancel out, and others will reinforce.
If you flip the polarity of one of the speakers, all it will do is flip WHICH frequencies are cancelling vs reinforcing.
Due to the wavelength of low frequencies being larger, there is a greater area/time of coinciding air pressure between the two speakers' projection at low frequencies, thus the lower the frequency, the more likely it will be heard as being reinforced between the two speakers. Flipping the wiring polarity of one speaker would therefore actually cause a noticeable drop in low end.
 
No, WITHOUT flipping the polarity of the wiring, the speakers are in phase (they move in the same direction), and if the listener is not exactly equidistant from both speakers, then the sound from each speaker arrives at the listener at slightly different times.
Since every frequency has its own wavelength, that means that the timing difference of the two sounds arriving at the listener will occur at different points in the wavelength for each frequency. Some frequencies will therefor cancel out, and others will reinforce.
If you flip the polarity of one of the speakers, all it will do is flip WHICH frequencies are cancelling vs reinforcing.
Due to the wavelength of low frequencies being larger, there is a greater area/time of coinciding air pressure between the two speakers' projection at low frequencies, thus the lower the frequency, the more likely it will be heard as being reinforced between the two speakers. Flipping the wiring polarity of one speaker would therefore actually cause a noticeable drop in low end.
Does this also apply if the original question was about there already being phase issues and comb filtering as a result of that?

If that is the case maybe the cab is not wired properly and someone DOES NEED to flip the polarity on one of the
speakers in the cab to align phase and eliminate the comb filtering.
 
Does this also apply if the original question was about there already being phase issues and comb filtering as a result of that?

If that is the case maybe the cab is not wired properly and someone DOES NEED to flip the polarity on one of the
speakers in the cab to align phase and eliminate the comb filtering.
Comb filtering will occur in any situation where the same sound is emanating from multiple sources that are spaced apart.
You can try flipping the wiring on 1 speaker, and listen to the low end to see if it cancels out more, or less... but it will not eliminate comb filtering. Generally speaking, the closer together the speakers are, the less comb filtering will occur.
 
Nice👍 - Are they flat enough in those cabs such they can replicate the different sounds of widely varying amp/cabir Axefx models?
Yes, I can hear the Fender Deluxe distinct from say, the Shiva Clean, the Princeton, certainly all the tweeds. The high gain amps retain their personalities as well. I am tweaking pre sets as I go through them, but not drastically.

At first, it sounded bassy, which I expected, so I brought up the Global EQ and threw up a convex setting, cutting the lows and some higher highs. That was a quick fix, and brought me into familiar territory when going through the Fractal pre sets. When I can spend more time with it, I think I will be rewarded with further and more granular adjustments.

I like the feel of playing through this better than playing through monitors. Cost a bit, but I feel good about it. And, it's stereo, which can be switched quickly back to mono on the power amp in the back. I was wondering why I wasn't hearing stereo delays when I checked it and found it set to parallel. A power down and a flick of the switch fixed that, and the soundfield was glorious.
 
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Wanted to get some opinions on 4x12, 2x12 and 1x12 options for these speakers. I have had 4 of these in a Marshall 1960A cab, its awesome for gig volume and have really dialed in cleans and high gain stuff really well (more modern metal vs. 80's metal high gain). I don't want to take my 4x12 all over except big gigs, so I have been looking at 2x12 and 1x12 options. I have a 1936 Marshall cab I am going to try out (should get speakers and cab today) - but I have always been curious as to the performance of the Celestion spec'd cab but no way I will build it myself. I can get them built for $425 each, buying two and would then run stereo with them. Is the Celestion spec worth it? I have more money than sense, so if its better and the right design, I'd rather spend the $850 - but if I'm chasing something that isn't going to even hear a difference then well I just don' have room for all these cabs :).

So, should I A) stick with 1936 Marshall cab with 2 of these and 4x12 1960a with 4 of them, or B) get two of these 1x12 to run stereo and the big beast when needed for large gigs?
 
Wanted to get some opinions on 4x12, 2x12 and 1x12 options for these speakers. I have had 4 of these in a Marshall 1960A cab, its awesome for gig volume and have really dialed in cleans and high gain stuff really well (more modern metal vs. 80's metal high gain). I don't want to take my 4x12 all over except big gigs, so I have been looking at 2x12 and 1x12 options. I have a 1936 Marshall cab I am going to try out (should get speakers and cab today) - but I have always been curious as to the performance of the Celestion spec'd cab but no way I will build it myself. I can get them built for $425 each, buying two and would then run stereo with them. Is the Celestion spec worth it? I have more money than sense, so if its better and the right design, I'd rather spend the $850 - but if I'm chasing something that isn't going to even hear a difference then well I just don' have room for all these cabs :).

So, should I A) stick with 1936 Marshall cab with 2 of these and 4x12 1960a with 4 of them, or B) get two of these 1x12 to run stereo and the big beast when needed for large gigs?
I've only used the celestion spec cabs so I can't speak for other cabs. Sound awesome. I will say that the difference will probably be in the low end since it's a tuned port bass reflex design. Celestion states:

The F12-X200 will deliver great tone in a conventional open or closed back guitar cab. However, to get the most from the speaker’s full range capability, we recommend loading it into a bass reflex cabinet.

That being said if you can afford it why would you not want to get the most out of it's full range capability? That was my thinking when deciding to go this route.
 
I've only used the celestion spec cabs so I can't speak for other cabs. Sound awesome. I will say that the difference will probably be in the low end since it's a tuned port bass reflex design. Celestion states:

The F12-X200 will deliver great tone in a conventional open or closed back guitar cab. However, to get the most from the speaker’s full range capability, we recommend loading it into a bass reflex cabinet.

That being said if you can afford it why would you not want to get the most out of it's full range capability? That was my thinking when deciding to go this route.
I only needed one enabler ;-). Cabs ordered and I am able to customize the tolex, piping, etc. thanks for the push, I knew I could count on this place!
 
Vboutique - I happen to be in SoCal right now so I can do a pickup locally and save shipping costs, so all in all - its not a bad deal. Though I do wish I would have just contacted them first instead of ordering speakers then contacting, probably would have saved $100-150 by buying the full package from them ($529 I believe). But I am very impatient, they already have them built and just wrapping them up it sounded like, so should have them in the next few days.
 
Vboutique - I happen to be in SoCal right now so I can do a pickup locally and save shipping costs, so all in all - its not a bad deal. Though I do wish I would have just contacted them first instead of ordering speakers then contacting, probably would have saved $100-150 by buying the full package from them ($529 I believe). But I am very impatient, they already have them built and just wrapping them up it sounded like, so should have them in the next few days.
Awesome, thanks!!
 
Ran my Fryette PS100 through my single F12 today. My finely tuned (lol) gigging preset was great. If I keep the Fryette; I'll be looking for a 212 for both of my F12s \m/
 
Don't think, so he has four of his own.
Correct, I believe it’s 529 off reverb with speaker, I had already ordered them off Sweetwater because I have an empty 1936 2x12 that I wanted to try out first but I’m guessing the two 1x12 So I can run true stereo will be better. I’ll probably drop in a couple of Marshal v30 in the 1936 once I get the Celestine specd cabs and give those a try for some Marshall presets.
You will have to share pics and let us know how you like them 🤘😜
Will do, I went with Orange Bronco tolex, black speaker cloth grill, white piping and black corners…I’m thinking they are going to look great! Anyone know of a place to get a custom badge made up?

These things will be loud in more than one way!
 
I posted this in a separate f12-x200 thread but never got an answer, so figured I’d check here as it sounds like most active in this thread use these speakers.

When setting the speaker config of the amp block, do you configure FRFR still or use SS Power Amp and Cab? I get conflicting info since the speakers are kinda FRFR but I’m using them in a cab with a SS amp.

Also do you select an impedance curve that matches what you have them in (2x12, etc) or what’s configured in your cab block in the preset?

Finally, do you adjust the low resonant frequency to 61hz based on the spec of the speaker or do you need to go through and run that sine wave thing (as quoted in the thread about getting your cab moving) to figure it out based on the cab you are physically using?

When I dropped 4 of these in a 1960a, it sounded glorious with the stock setting but sounded even better (I think, lol) with doing some of the above. The 1936 isn’t as plug and play so I’m curious to how f12-x200 owners approach the settings to achieve the amp in the room. I have a 67 Twin Reverb 2x12 combo that I want dial in my 1936 with these to A/B them and see how close this cab can imitate other cabs/amps.

Thanks for any info!
 
I posted this in a separate f12-x200 thread but never got an answer, so figured I’d check here as it sounds like most active in this thread use these speakers.

When setting the speaker config of the amp block, do you configure FRFR still or use SS Power Amp and Cab? I get conflicting info since the speakers are kinda FRFR but I’m using them in a cab with a SS amp.

Also do you select an impedance curve that matches what you have them in (2x12, etc) or what’s configured in your cab block in the preset?

Finally, do you adjust the low resonant frequency to 61hz based on the spec of the speaker or do you need to go through and run that sine wave thing (as quoted in the thread about getting your cab moving) to figure it out based on the cab you are physically using?

When I dropped 4 of these in a 1960a, it sounded glorious with the stock setting but sounded even better (I think, lol) with doing some of the above. The 1936 isn’t as plug and play so I’m curious to how f12-x200 owners approach the settings to achieve the amp in the room. I have a 67 Twin Reverb 2x12 combo that I want dial in my 1936 with these to A/B them and see how close this cab can imitate other cabs/amps.

Thanks for any info!
I set it frfr

I use a few different 4x12 irs and pvy5150 impedance curve

I never did the sine wave thing. I just set lo res at 75 per spec sheet. Wouldn't be a bad idea tho to sweep it.

I was blown away by how these feel and sound like a real AITR compared to studio monitors, PA, or powered frfr cab.
 
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