Celestion F12-X200

I think it's a better idea than trying to sell it off to the next little guy.... celestion and sweetwater make tons of money
That's very true, I've found a dealer over here in the UK that provide a 30 day returns period and a 2 year guarantee so its worth it. Either way I'll get my money back I suppose!
 
That's very true, I've found a dealer over here in the UK that provide a 30 day returns period and a 2 year guarantee so its worth it. Either way I'll get my money back I suppose!
In all honesty it's probably a defective speaker from the start and you just got stuck with it. I read that the first batch of those speakers had some sort of buzzing defect from the factory... something to do with the plastic cap on the back and internal crossover if memory serves. So I wouldn't feel bad.
 
In all honesty it's probably a defective speaker from the start and you just got stuck with it. I read that the first batch of those speakers had some sort of buzzing defect from the factory... something to do with the plastic cap on the back and internal crossover if memory serves. So I wouldn't feel bad.
Interesting! I just had an email back from the guys at Zilla I asked them which wire connected to which terminal on the speaker. They said the black one is positive and the blue one is negative. I remember opening up the cab yesterday and the black cable wasn't on the positive terminal. they were swapped. Would that make a difference?
 
Interesting! I just had an email back from the guys at Zilla I asked them which wire connected to which terminal on the speaker. They said the black one is positive and the blue one is negative. I remember opening up the cab yesterday and the black cable wasn't on the positive terminal. they were swapped. Would that make a difference?
I have no idea...can't hurt to correct it. I think it would reverse phase. Here's a thread you should read...
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/celestion-f12-x200.138674/

Been looking for the thing I read about first run defects but can't find it. However, even the fractal admin says these require a powerful SS amp in one of the posts.
 
Fyi "Dr. Decibel" of Celestion and I conversed in Jan of 2020 as I asked him the same thing and he said all the F12s that were out in the wild were good. So not sure where that rumor started.
 
However, even the fractal admin says these require a powerful SS amp in one of the posts.
I don't think so. It seems as effective to me like a guitar speaker. Like you can play gigs with a 20w amp and a vintage 30 loaded cab I'd say the F12-X200 plays in the same league. A 20w poweramp should be enough to play it next to an average loud drummer.
 
Fyi "Dr. Decibel" of Celestion and I conversed in Jan of 2020 as I asked him the same thing and he said all the F12s that were out in the wild were good. So not sure where that rumor started.
This one could be pre Jan 2020 I suppose. What I don't get is why the speaker isn't distorting when I play an audio track through it. Only when my guitar is plugged into it. I think I'm gonna have to record what I'm hearing and upload it so you guys can check it out. I'm gigging over the weekend so I'll grab the old trusty SM57 from my bands lockup and mic the cab up.
 
This one could be pre Jan 2020 I suppose. What I don't get is why the speaker isn't distorting when I play an audio track through it. Only when my guitar is plugged into it. I think I'm gonna have to record what I'm hearing and upload it so you guys can check it out. I'm gigging over the weekend so I'll grab the old trusty SM57 from my bands lockup and mic the cab up.
Man, that's a head scratcher for sure. Making me want to take these new speakers and put them into one of my 4x12 cabs just to hear them, since it'll be at least a few weeks before I can get my new cabs built.

I did go back and re-read several pages of posts in this thread, and the general consensus seems to be, if you install these speakers into the correct cab (as close to Celestion's specs as possible, definitely closed-back, and with a port), they sound fantastic.
 
This one could be pre Jan 2020 I suppose. What I don't get is why the speaker isn't distorting when I play an audio track through it. Only when my guitar is plugged into it. I think I'm gonna have to record what I'm hearing and upload it so you guys can check it out. I'm gigging over the weekend so I'll grab the old trusty SM57 from my bands lockup and mic the cab up.
He meant all the F12s that were released. Interested to hear your clips. They do Have a LOT of treble content and seem very power amp dependant.
 
I don't think so. It seems as effective to me like a guitar speaker. Like you can play gigs with a 20w amp and a vintage 30 loaded cab I'd say the F12-X200 plays in the same league. A 20w poweramp should be enough to play it next to an average loud drummer.
I'm pretty sure these are closer to a 200watt two way PA speaker just with a lighter cone to give the live response feel and a separate HF driver under the dust cap which is an entirely different animal all together.

Here is EXACTLY what Mr. Cliff Chase posted on the subject:

"That speaker is simply the wrong choice with a tube power amp like that. The amp is only 50W. It's going to generate significant amounts of distortion at even moderate volumes. That distortion would usually get filtered with a traditional guitar speaker. But with the X200 all those nasty highs are going to go right to the tweeter. You demonstrated this to yourself when you lowered the volume.

Furthermore the impedance curve presented to the amp is going to be all kinds of funky. Tube power amps for guitar are designed around the typical impedance curve presented by a traditional guitar speaker.

You want a clean, fairly high-power solid-state power amp with that. Either something like an 800W Matrix or one of those Class-D amps (600W or so)."

I agree with him 100%. I'm driving two cabs with a 530watt per channel class H solid state amp and have had ZERO issues. Plenty of clean, low THD power with tons of headroom.
 
Mine is now mounted in a Tech 21 power enginge 60 (open back) and it is plenty loud and sounds clear. I had in an open back combo housing before and drove it with a crate power block or with a Hughes & Kettner Black Spirit (powerattenuator at 20w) and that was loud too. BTW 20w from the H&K or 60w from the Tech 21 are different than 90w from the Crate. The Crate somehow isn't that loud.
The F12 needs way less power than the usual PA speaker.
The specs say it has 97 db sensitivity and that's a lot. 97 db already from 1w...1w already is way beyond bedroom volume.
 
I'm pretty sure these are closer to a 200watt two way PA speaker just with a lighter cone to give the live response feel and a separate HF driver under the dust cap which is an entirely different animal all together.

Here is EXACTLY what Mr. Cliff Chase posted on the subject:

"That speaker is simply the wrong choice with a tube power amp like that. The amp is only 50W. It's going to generate significant amounts of distortion at even moderate volumes. That distortion would usually get filtered with a traditional guitar speaker. But with the X200 all those nasty highs are going to go right to the tweeter. You demonstrated this to yourself when you lowered the volume.

Furthermore the impedance curve presented to the amp is going to be all kinds of funky. Tube power amps for guitar are designed around the typical impedance curve presented by a traditional guitar speaker.

You want a clean, fairly high-power solid-state power amp with that. Either something like an 800W Matrix or one of those Class-D amps (600W or so)."

I agree with him 100%. I'm driving two cabs with a 530watt per channel class H solid state amp and have had ZERO issues. Plenty of clean, low THD power with tons of headroom.
What amp are you using again?
 
Mine is now mounted in a Tech 21 power enginge 60 (open back) and it is plenty loud and sounds clear. I had in an open back combo housing before and drove it with a crate power block or with a Hughes & Kettner Black Spirit (powerattenuator at 20w) and that was loud too. BTW 20w from the H&K or 60w from the Tech 21 are different than 90w from the Crate. The Crate somehow isn't that loud.
The F12 needs way less power than the usual PA speaker.
The specs say it has 97 db sensitivity and that's a lot. 97 db already from 1w...1w already is way beyond bedroom volume.
If it works for you I'm happy for you. I personally would want more clean headroom to use these speakers to their full potential and even a cheap Behringer with enough power will do that. When the wife is gone I crank mine and there is no way 20watts is going to get me where I want to be.... definitely won't get me where I NEED to be when my buddy comes by with his Randall to jam.
 
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Ah, that's ok, I also always wait for the wife and the kids to go out before cranking it up, they'd call me deaf or crazy otherwise. But there is no guy with a Randall next to me, that would rise the bar.

I guess clean headroom comes from the design of the power amp, maybe it's always the poor power supply that makes problems there and the question is if it can supply fast attacks in the lows or if it gets to it's limits then.
When you take a 400w amp for a 200w speaker the supply should always be good enough even when the design is cheap. A solution that works for sure. That does not say that all tiny amps are garbage on the other hand.
Some are crappy, some are decend. Some lie about their power rating, some give a true and fair view.
 
Ah, that's ok, I also always wait for the wife and the kids to go out before cranking it up, they'd call me deaf or crazy otherwise. But there is no guy with a Randall next to me, that would rise the bar.

I guess clean headroom comes from the design of the power amp, maybe it's always the poor power supply that makes problems there and the question is if it can supply fast attacks in the lows or if it gets to it's limits then.
When you take a 400w amp for a 200w speaker the supply should always be good enough even when the design is cheap. A solution that works for sure. That does not say that all tiny amps are garbage on the other hand.
Some are crappy, some are decend. Some lie about their power rating, some give a true and fair view.
I had bought the Behringer locally as a temporary solution until the class A/B Crown I ordered came in. Surprisingly it wasn't a bad amp for half the price. Also the company was dragging their feet shipping so I cancelled my order. Of course they lie....it's Behringer. They rate it at 530w@8ohm per channel when it actually only pushes 442w@8ohm before clipping. Which is still plenty for my application. It's a direct ripoff of a QSC amp rated at 425w@8ohm so that makes sense. It's just got cheap caps so it's either re-cap it or trash it when it dies. My only complaint so far is the fan is quite loud. I'd love to have a matrix GT1600FX but they cost $1000. Epx4000 cost less than 1/3 that.
It was tested here:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/the-behringer-epx4000-amp.1384374/
 
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