Celestion F12-X200

JiveTurkey said:
Broken record. The F12 is the best compromise between resigning yourself to using a powered monitor or saying screw it and turning off cab emulation and using a traditional guitar cabinet. It doesn't color the sound so much as gives you the "feel" of playing through guitar speakers.
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I hear ya... and you're probably right. But like you said, a "best compromise" is still a compromise. The question I'm curious about (just academic curiosity really) is where the failing is: is it in the modeling, or that truly great/accurate FRFR solutions are just too expensive, or . . . ?

I mean the entire modeling/profiling premise is that all those speaker interactions and "feel" can be replicated, right? But the popularity of the F12 is saying we're not there yet.
 
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benvigil said:
I mean the entire modeling/profiling premise is that all those speaker interactions and "feel" can be replicated, right? But the popularity of the F12 is saying we're not there yet.
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The modeled signal chain includes a mic and a mic preamp... Listening to a guitar cab in the room is not an apples to apples comparison to a mic'd cab in another that is amplified.
 
Dispersion is different with guitar cabs. Dedicated tweeters have a wide dispersion pattern that's designed to cover a large area. Guitar cabs are very directional, especially in the highs. Anywhere past 30 to 40 degrees off axis and your highs are pretty much gone. Atomic CLR's in comparison have nearly 90 degree off axis coverage in the highs. That's going to have a big impact on how the sound bounces around the room and interacts with you and your guitar, especially at lower volumes.
 
benvigil said:
I hear ya... and you're probably right. But like you said, a "best compromise" is still a compromise. The question I'm curious about (just academic curiosity really) is where the failing is: is it in the modeling, or that truly great/accurate FRFR solutions are just too expensive, or . . . ?

I mean the entire modeling/profiling premise is that all those speaker interactions and "feel" can be replicated, right? But the popularity of the F12 is saying we're not there yet.
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I have ran the gamut. Well, as far along gamut as I care to financially go :oops: :D From my guitar amp into 2x12/4x12 to my Alesis powered monitors to a CLR to a matrix power amp into the F12. As well as the Powercab 112 which was terrible.

Fractal, Atomic, Boss, Kemper all got along fine with all of those monitoring solutions (other than the PC). Helix was a little pickier and the Kemper, as well; was a little difficult through powered monitors. But i enjoyed it the most through a power amp and guitar cabinet.

I've gotten to where I hear no need to tweak things from what I get out of my F12 vs what is coming out the PA and thats really my final goal. "Final" :D
 
My opinion, it may be useful to someone:
Over the weekend I got used to the Celestion F12-X200 in a small closed cab with bass-reflex holes (cab slightly smaller in volume than the one suggested by the Celestion website in the DIY project). We used DIY amp in class D 100W for powered this solution. (100W was enough to break through the rehearsals with the band and the drums)

In my opinion:
  • perfect for Strat; lively, dynamic sound "with a claw"; clean and crunch
  • for LesPaul - gained, lead sound. Hmm ... lifeless, no details :/. Two days on Fractal I tried to twist something for LesPaul on this speaker (various amplifiers, various IRs) and I failed.

For comparison I have Yamaha HS8 monitors.
Playing the Celestion F12-X200 (especially on Strat!!) is very similar to playing on a guitar cab. And if it wasn't for the LesPaul sound problem, it would be a cheap (in compared to other active columns) solution for Fractal.

For now, I sent it back, I will feel something among the other FRFR (active columns). However, I do not forget about these speakers - for Strat so far I did not have a better sound system.

Note that I am looking only for sound system rehearsals and small concerts, at home I use Yamaha HS8. In fact, I have not tested the Celestions at a low level (only loudly)

Bestregards
L.
 
So in working with the FM I got last week; I have been using the F12 on occasion. It has taken a little bit of a tweaking to get where I am liking it with the F12. I am also using my Mustang GT100 combo as a powered monitor as well. The F12 sounds a bit more scooped. Probably because I am dialing in to taste using the open back of the GT100 combo. The GT continues to sound wayyyyyyyyy better than it should. It is flat (enough) but gives a guitar cab feel and punch while still being able to translate the modeled acoustic and synth stuff from my Boss/Roland gear.

The F12 for me is best up LOUD. That's really when you get the goods. I wish I still had my CLR as I would be very interested to see how they all fared among each other.
 
Lecchu said:
Playing the Celestion F12-X200 (especially on Strat!!) is very similar to playing on a guitar cab.
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I am (still) in the process of experimenting with a 2x12 cab with a pair of F12-X200s. Using an SD PS 170, that cab actually sounds better to me than my CLR using the @austinbuddy "Strat! SRV 1X15Vibroverb FM3" preset, (unaltered) scene 1, from his Live Gold pack. That's not usually the case in my experience when comparing the X200s to the CLR. At the risk of repeating an often used term, it sounds very much "amp in the room".
 
I just bought this and plug it in to my 2 x 12 cabinet (recto DIY) and it's too boomy, i will make the recommended cabinet box in this month and test it.
 
I have find an easy way to correct this FRFR celestion speaker. we need to calibrate it with our eviroment.

because there is variable of Room, speaker placement, power amplifier coloration etc.

So i had use the global EQ settings in the AXE FX III. to correct this frequency response.

Get preset from leon tod preset, that to find speaker resonance. but change the sine wave to pink noise.

Using KRK audio tools. and then adjust the global EQ to flat as you can. with the help that brownish line (peak indicator).

to verify it, tell the apps to make eq recommendation. if you succeded it will tell you to set it to "FLAT EQ".

Now my speaker is sound so good. :sob::sob::sob: can do marshall sound, and fender sound like heaven in that JTM 45 blues lead preset.

I'm very happy now because this is the most economical FRFR solution available to me. i dont need to make any cabinet, just direct replacement.

it is sound very similiar to my v30 because i play it a lot.

And btw, I burn in my new speaker by playing song from itunes via axe FX for some hours did reduce the harshness of this speaker.
 
Not had much luck with this speaker unfortunately...…

The first speaker I had went straight back to Celestion for testing as I thought it was damaged or blown.

The second speaker arrived and the same raspy distorted sound is still prevalent?

My Brother brings his 600w powered Kemper over and the F12 sounds amazing??

I've tried every switch and function I can think of within the Axe fx 3 and the speaker still makes this unusable sound??

At low volume everything sounds cool. As soon as I crank up the volume to concert levels the speaker distorts like crazy??

Any ideas as why the speaker is not performing correctly would be greatly appreciated.

Signal path: Prs ce 24 > AXe fx 3 > Fryette Powerstation> Celestion f12 x200 in Celestion designed cabinet as per plans.

Thanks.
 
neale dunham said:
Not had much luck with this speaker unfortunately...…

The first speaker I had went straight back to Celestion for testing as I thought it was damaged or blown.

The second speaker arrived and the same raspy distorted sound is still prevalent?

My Brother brings his 600w powered Kemper over and the F12 sounds amazing??

I've tried every switch and function I can think of within the Axe fx 3 and the speaker still makes this unusable sound??

At low volume everything sounds cool. As soon as I crank up the volume to concert levels the speaker distorts like crazy??

Any ideas as why the speaker is not performing correctly would be greatly appreciated.

Signal path: Prs ce 24 > AXe fx 3 > Fryette Powerstation> Celestion f12 x200 in Celestion designed cabinet as per plans.

Thanks.
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Sounds like you might be overdriving your power amp.
 
I wondered if this could be the case too??

So far, I have tried keeping the signal from output 1 of the Axe as low as possible and turning up the power amp. Then, reversing the idea and keeping the Axe output high and power amp low and neither seem to cure the issue.

Its almost as if, as the power increases to the speaker, once it hits crosses a certain threshold whether that be Power amp volume or Axe fx volume the distorted sound appears??

Christ knows whats causing it or where its coming from.

If you have any ideas at all.... im definitely all ears.
 
neale dunham said:
I wondered if this could be the case too??

So far, I have tried keeping the signal from output 1 of the Axe as low as possible and turning up the power amp. Then, reversing the idea and keeping the Axe output high and power amp low and neither seem to cure the issue.

Its almost as if, as the power increases to the speaker, once it hits crosses a certain threshold whether that be Power amp volume or Axe fx volume the distorted sound appears??

Christ knows whats causing it or where its coming from.

If you have any ideas at all.... im definitely all ears.
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If I'm reading this right, when you have the Axe's output down low and the power amp's volume down low, it sounds right. But as you turn up the power amp's volume, it reaches a point where it starts distorting. Is that correct?
 
Well...….

The Celestion performed flawlessly on my brothers' Kemper without any distortion whatsoever?

Playing well recorded music through the F12 produces fantastic clear sound at high volume levels??

Also, Ive tried A Mesa 50/50 Poweramp And a Marshall EL34 50/50 both of which when connected to the Axe fx produce this distorted sound.

I cannot for the life of me figure out where the issue lies.
 
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