Celestion F12-X200

Wanted to get some opinions on 4x12, 2x12 and 1x12 options for these speakers. I have had 4 of these in a Marshall 1960A cab, its awesome for gig volume and have really dialed in cleans and high gain stuff really well (more modern metal vs. 80's metal high gain). I don't want to take my 4x12 all over except big gigs, so I have been looking at 2x12 and 1x12 options. I have a 1936 Marshall cab I am going to try out (should get speakers and cab today) - but I have always been curious as to the performance of the Celestion spec'd cab but no way I will build it myself. I can get them built for $425 each, buying two and would then run stereo with them. Is the Celestion spec worth it? I have more money than sense, so if its better and the right design, I'd rather spend the $850 - but if I'm chasing something that isn't going to even hear a difference then well I just don' have room for all these cabs :).

So, should I A) stick with 1936 Marshall cab with 2 of these and 4x12 1960a with 4 of them, or B) get two of these 1x12 to run stereo and the big beast when needed for large gigs?
very much looking forward to your feedback on the 1936 212 with two f12x.. i am not that short of 212 cabs and aesthetically prefer the look ..yeah i know..bad reason..lol
 
very much looking forward to your feedback on the 1936 212 with two f12x.. i am not that short of 212 cabs and aesthetically prefer the look ..yeah i know..bad reason..lol
I hear you on the looks, I'd say everything I look for is 60% based on looks, lol - gotta look good to play good!?!?

So far its been definitely less plug and play than the 1960a 4x12 I have 4 of them in, but I am not sure its the speaker cab but the power amp I am using. I got a ton of clipping to start - but I was trying to go from Axe->Midas M32C/DL16->PS200->cab - and I think the the mixer was just amping up the gain too much and got much better results when going from OUT 2L (Out 1 Copy) directly into the PS200 then to the cab, definitely less clipping/mudd. I will say the sound is a little 'boxy'/distant once I stopped the clipping - I may try to put in some acoustic foam paneling - something that I didn't need for the 1960. I use a PS700 in stereo for the 1960a, where here I am using a PS200, so not sure if that is having any effect. Also, I sired these in series, so its pulling 16ohm load from amp, I may try to rewire in parallel today and see if that has better results.

Still sounds pretty dang good though - I am going to mess around with the different impedance curves, etc and maybe even try to run the sine wave thing to find the low resonant frequency for this setup and see if that helps me dial it in.

Also, I think some ear fatigue was hitting me yesterday, even my Vintage Twin Reverb was sounding off last night when I was messing around.
 
I set it frfr

I use a few different 4x12 irs and pvy5150 impedance curve

I never did the sine wave thing. I just set lo res at 75 per spec sheet. Wouldn't be a bad idea tho to sweep it.

I was blown away by how these feel and sound like a real AITR compared to studio monitors, PA, or powered frfr cab.
Thanks for the info - I am gonna give these a try - its hard to tell if I am actually hearing differences, I do feel like its more lively with the settings you describe - and not as dark and distant sounding.

Would love to hear from others what settings they use.
 
I've decided to stick with my Red sounds for now as I prefer using stereo to be honest. But I was impressed with the F12 sounds pretty good to me. I'd probably use it with a slightly more powerful power amp if I'm totally honest. But no doubt about its pretty damn loud with the Powerstage 170.
Can you give a rundown on what kind of difference you heard with Red Sounds vs the F12 cab? Besides stereo of course. I've been thinking of either getting a pair of Barefaced Reality 112fr cabs with the F12 or a pair of Red Sound ELIS.8s. The Red Sounds are ugly as hell tho.
 
I'm not really the right person to ask about this to be honest. My experience with the F12 was very short, I got put off by the whole thing because I had a bad speaker. I probably should've given the F12 a fair chance but I ended up sticking with my Red Sounds. I'd give it another go definitely. Maybe one day I'll put one in my Boogie cab.

I think it's more to do with the stereo thing to be honest the Red Sounds just sound more open and fuller. And more consistent. Probably if you had two F12's they sound the same as you'd get that stereo spread.

Recently though I bought a Mission Gemini 1 and I must say I'm really liking this one it sounds fantastic. I fitted some castors to it yesterday and its raised it off the floor a little. It seems to of got rid of some nasty low end I was experiencing with it which I could've probably dialled out in the Axe or FM3 or using the EM control at the back but just playing through the JP2C red model last night sounded killer, you'd swear it was an actual Boogie playing if you closed you eyes lol. I know this is probably not what you want to hear but I definitely prefer the Mission now but I'd still want to keep my Red sounds as well.
 
Can you give a rundown on what kind of difference you heard with Red Sounds vs the F12 cab? Besides stereo of course. I've been thinking of either getting a pair of Barefaced Reality 112fr cabs with the F12 or a pair of Red Sound ELIS.8s. The Red Sounds are ugly as hell tho.
The Barefaced idea of a rear facing tweeter seems bizarre on the face of it, and they're expensive too. If I could try them out down the street I would, but they're not, returning them means paying shipping back to the UK (I'm in the US).

You also need a power amp, meaning added weight, space, and cost.
 
very much looking forward to your feedback on the 1936 212 with two f12x.. i am not that short of 212 cabs and aesthetically prefer the look ..yeah i know..bad reason..lol
Had a good session yesterday dialing in the Axe->PS200->1936 w/F12's. I sat with my 67 Twin Reverb on my left - about 5 ft away and the 1936 on my right about the same distance. For the clean tones, I was able to dial these is to be basically the same. There were some slight sonic differences I think in just the overall sound delivery - both had the chest thumping, AITR feeling to me, but the tone coming out was identical. I would liken the differences to maybe overall compression(?). If anything I thought the 1936 sounded more 'up-front' than the Twin Combo, if that makes sense.

One big factor in the tone matching was messing with the pre-amp tube configurations. I found the 7025 to be the most realistic sounding to what is actually coming out of my amp, which is actually using 12AX7A's.

Crunch tones were harder to match - the overall presence of the 1936 was more bassy/boomy I think than the Twin - the tones were the same but again overall delivery was different - again, both AITR feeling though, not like an FRFR 'dead sounding' difference.

Things got really interesting after I dialed in what I liked up close, I moved about 10 feet away and off to the side and it didn't sound nearly as good - sounded fizzy, etc. Which I guess makes sense since I dialed them in for me sitting 3-5ft away.

I think someone who knows what they are doing with all that EQ and filter stuff could easily get this thing to do what they want - I am such a noob and I think I can dial them in enough to my liking with some trial and error.
 
The Barefaced idea of a rear facing tweeter seems bizarre on the face of it, and they're expensive too. If I could try them out down the street I would, but they're not, returning them means paying shipping back to the UK (I'm in the US).

You also need a power amp, meaning added weight, space, and cost.
I'm in Finland so they are expensive too which is why I'm evaluating my options. Poweramp is definitely an extra cost.

To me the rear facing tweeter actually makes more sense because those can be pretty poky. I remember keeping it pretty low on the Atomic FR 1x12 I used to run when I had an Axe-Fx 2. So if it is instead bouncing off a whatever is behind the Barefaced it's going to diffuse more.
 
Another update here on the 1936 w/ 2 of these. I re-wired my cab to be in parallel vs series.

I think this wiring sounds way better. I’m assuming because 2x the power is getting to them. My 4x12 has them in parallel in each side.

On a side note, I’ve had to use wire taps to splice the wire for parallel because I forgot the second terminal has a jumper wire soldered to it and I like quick connectors vs soldering, cause I’m lazy :). Just curious why that is and if there’s a better way (or if I’m doing something wrong), electrically it seems the same by using wire taps vs extra terminals.
 
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Update on the cabs with the F12-x200. I got my custom made cabs and loaded them up and they sound pretty awesome. Definitely notice the low end more as noted by others on this thread. I have them in a 1960a and these two and had them in the 1936. They all sound different but you can dial them in pretty well. I have definitely been messing with the impedance curve stuff to find the sweat spot.

I will say also, I have the 1936 loaded with Marshall G12 Vintage (V30's from the 1960a originally) and wow they sound pretty damn sweet as well in there with the FM3. I have tried both a PowerStage 200 and 700 - the 700 I think sounds better for the F12-X200's where they both sounded the same with the v30's in the 1936. I was quite impressed with the v30's - I fork before the cab to OUT 2, I play with a lot of IR's from 1960a with v30's so maybe it just works well with my presents - but I tried it even with a Fender Twin Reverb model and sounded great.

The F12-X200 are great with cleans - a little fizzy with high gain, but I found rolling the volume knob back a little on the guitar removes some of it and gives it a more 'laser' like cut.

Pics included
 

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Great looking cabs! I bet they sound just as loud as they look. Lol. I run mine stereo separated about 7ft left and 7ft right from center. Sounds awesome with fractals stereo delays and reverbs.
 
Great looking cabs! I bet they sound just as loud as they look. Lol. I run mine stereo separated about 7ft left and 7ft right from center. Sounds awesome with fractals stereo delays and reverbs.
Thanks! They are super loud, especially with the PS700 - I've only gotten them to about 10-11 O'clock and so loud. The cleans are so good - very 3D and sparkles - some high gain stuff can sound muffled - so still playing with it a bit.

Im taking the 1936 over to my rehearsal space with the PS200 and FM3, so I am thinking of flanking the 1960a in my setup on each side for the stereo effect - right now I just have too much $#@$
 
So, spurred by the experience of @golfski above with his 1936 cab, I ordered two F12-x200 and they arrived yesterday. I have three amps in contention, the power section of the Genz Benz Streamliner 900, the power section of the Boss TAE, and the natural channel of the Orange Rocker 30 (a unique, limited gain flat response channel that is blistering loud when clean).

I pulled out the V-types (you know - the V30 for folk who dont like the V30) from my $299 slash sale PRS 212OB cab here prs 212ob cab and stuck the f12-x200 in.. Being open back there was no real issues with any calculations.. and for power i ran into the fx return of the 100W power section of the Boss TAE swiss army knife.. cos yes it does almost everything.

initially i was like wtf.. mud & fizz ..so futzed about some and couldn't eq out in the ax8 ..so at this point i was well, you know, its going so well you are starting to sweat?..lol

Finally I figured i should d/l the TAE editor and yes, in system settings i had added fletcher munson compensation.. as given its use is primarily as a load box/attenuator/re-amper and ultimately figured oops - logically with no actual input the box would have set compensation to max.. switched off and moved on. phew..

The i played my phone into ax8 input 2 and straight to outputs 1 and listened to music some and tbh it sounded pretty darn good so guitar and presets went back in.

one hour later.. So far so good. a slight 3dB cut at 60hz in global eq ..but cab is 2ft from a rear wall and a cut at 16kHz.. overall much more realistic for guitar than studio monitors or the Line 6 L2T PA speaker I have been using.. not as good as a tube amp and cab, but i can use "different cabs"

The next couple of weeks may bring something up but for now I am just going to enjoy it.. $360 well spent.
 
Nice work! That is pretty interesting hearing your experience in an open back cab. I didn't understand half of what you wrote in terms of dialing it in (probably closer to 99%, lol) but sounds like you were able to work through it to your liking. When I first looked into the F12-x200, I intentionally stayed away from OB as it seemed that most struggled with it and closed back was better, now I may have to give it a shot, I still have two V30's with no home, so could definitely use a couple empty 1x12 or a 2x12 to test.

I also agree for the most part on your not as good as tube amp. I have very little experience with tubes (or even SS amps) jumping directly into Fractal world. I did get a Fender Twin Reverb not too long ago and one thing I will say is clean's have a almost indistinguishable sound and 3D'ness to me - different but the same 'geometry of the sound' if you will. However, I definitely notice difference in high gain. It just sounds distant - but I think volume helps that. Either way, I feel like with Impedance curves, you get that thump you want through a regular cab or F12 cab - but like you said the F12 can impersonate a bunch, so I'd take 90-95% sound accuracy for flexibility.
 
Nice work! That is pretty interesting hearing your experience in an open back cab. I didn't understand half of what you wrote in terms of dialing it in (probably closer to 99%, lol) but sounds like you were able to work through it to your liking. When I first looked into the F12-x200, I intentionally stayed away from OB as it seemed that most struggled with it and closed back was better, now I may have to give it a shot, I still have two V30's with no home, so could definitely use a couple empty 1x12 or a 2x12 to test.

I also agree for the most part on your not as good as tube amp. I have very little experience with tubes (or even SS amps) jumping directly into Fractal world. I did get a Fender Twin Reverb not too long ago and one thing I will say is clean's have a almost indistinguishable sound and 3D'ness to me - different but the same 'geometry of the sound' if you will. However, I definitely notice difference in high gain. It just sounds distant - but I think volume helps that. Either way, I feel like with Impedance curves, you get that thump you want through a regular cab or F12 cab - but like you said the F12 can impersonate a bunch, so I'd take 90-95% sound accuracy for flexibility.

a closed back cab should be designed for a given speaker, and a ported cab is tuned to a given speaker.. (like the celestion reference design).. With a different speaker a closed cab can sound ok (chance) , but a ported cab rarely sounds ok (fat chance)...lol

An open back cab has no tuning component given its not an enclosed volume, and so it should be amenable to any speaker. It is subject to boom/mud if close to a wall (more sensitive in this regard than closed back)... OB also has (typically) less bass punch and depth, but a more open 3D'ish projection and less "beamy". The location of the open part of the back can affect mids/lows depending on location so its easy to experiment with a plywood replacement back cut into three strips horizontally.

i know, i know, subjective spaghetti.. lol.. I will work on the amp/speaker parameters as you referred to above... thanks for that tip.
 
FYI, Trey Anastasio is currently using FX12-X200s in his stereo wet cabs. Fingers crossed I get to hear this rig at MSG in a week and a half.

 

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So getting this cab in a trade today
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Ignoring Celestion cab specs be damned :grimacing::D

Loading it up with my 2 F12s and going to drive it with my PS100. The FM or SY1000 into the PS100 into 1 F12 is already stellar. I am hoping a 212 will be even better. We'll see \m/
 
Here's where I sit now
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Changed impedance curve to the 212 Bassman cab. Whether or not it's "right" is another story.

Only thing I will probably change is it's wired in series for 16ohms. I need to rewire sometime to 4ohms but that'll be down the road if ever. This cabinet looks and sounds fantastic.
 
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