Celestion F12-X200

[Tom Morris]

Are these speakers not designed to be used with a solid state amp and IR's. If you're going to use a real tube power amp wouldn't you want a real guitar speaker and no IR? Kemper= solid state power amp. When using a tube power amp you would want to disable power amp modeling in the AXE FX.

 

[japri]

IMHO it's just the NOT NEUTRAL sound of the F12X200, that makes it so special. Yeah..it hypes the bass range quite a bit. And I personally boost the upper midrange between 1 khz and 5 khz a bit for more presence. But it pretty much reacts like a guitar speaker.
Maybe FRFRs like the CLRs are better for chosing the right IR for PA or recording purposes. When selecting IRs, I always switch between my studio monitors (IK Multimedia Iloud MTM with built in ARC), my AKG K12pro headphones and my DIY-cab with the F12X200. It's pretty much the average of all 3 systems, that helps me decide, which IRs will suit best. But for live and rehearsal, the character of the chosen IR is pictured well with the F12X200,
with a bit "fun factor", caused by the "Hump" of the F12X200. And like Nathan said: To each one his own.

Every speaker either it's your monitor, or your FRFR, needs to be calibrated to your room / placement. because this is a FRFR and size is quite large, it means in the small room will have huge bass. check this youtube link.

 

[Tom Morris]

I don't think anyone playing live is going white noise, pink noise their setup for every venue they play at. Thats just not practical. Doing it one time to find the low response of the cabinet should be fine for live then just final tweak with the output EQ per venue.

 

[japri]

I don't think anyone playing live is going white noise, pink noise their setup for every venue they play at. Thats just not practical. Doing it one time to find the low response of the cabinet should be fine for live then just final tweak with the output EQ per venue.

Well i think, if on a venue it's the sound guys job to EQ that. Their Modern Mixing console have that pink noise and RTA stuff now.
What i mean when you doing this at your home to get the best out of your speaker. But everyone ears has it's own taste and preferences.

Cheers mate..

 

[neale dunham]

Are these speakers not designed to be used with a solid state amp and IR's. If you're going to use a real tube power amp wouldn't you want a real guitar speaker and no IR? Kemper= solid state power amp. When using a tube power amp you would want to disable power amp modeling in the AXE FX.

I also Thought along these lines Tom. However, I received an email directly from Celestion stating that they Test these speakers using valve poweramps regularly with no issues. They even quoted the list of valve amps etc they use for testing so I don't think it purely for SS use.

Also, the Valve amp I use is A Fryette Powerstation which is very neutral and allows me to enjoy using the Amp Block.

The reason I wanted to try this particular speaker is to be able to use the cab sims and match every type of amp I use without having to swap cabinets. Which would be obviously totally impractical for a live show let alone the cost and space required to store all of the necessary equipment.

Up until recently ive been using A Mesa theile cabinet with cab sims off Ev loaded which obviously sounds great with the Mesa and Fender Sims but try putting a Vox amp sim or a Marshall Plexi sim through one of these and it just doesn't sound like a Celestion.

 

[Valhallir]

Every speaker either it's your monitor, or your FRFR, needs to be calibrated to your room / placement. because this is a FRFR and size is quite large, it means in the small room will have huge bass. check this youtube link.

If you search in this forum for the topic: "Pimp up my FRFR", you will find a tutorial video, where we already did this thing in 2013!!!!!
For an active monitor like the "db technologies FM12" we even provided a preset with the correction eq blocks. This preset got downloaded hundreds of times in the last years and we got only positive feedback.

My IK Multimedia Iloud MTMs have indeed a built in calibration tool. If you buy those speakers, you will get a measuring mike with it. My AKG K712 pro headphones don't really need calibration, they are pretty flat and made for mixing/mastering purposes.
And, like said before, The F12-X200 loaded DIY-cab is just for my own fun. It's also my cab for gigs.

 

[japri]

If you search in this forum for the topic: "Pimp up my FRFR", you will find a tutorial video, where we already did this thing in 2013!!!!!
For an active monitor like the "db technologies FM12" we even provided a preset with the correction eq blocks. This preset got downloaded hundreds of times in the last years and we got only positive feedback.

My IK Multimedia Iloud MTMs have indeed a built in calibration tool. If you buy those speakers, you will get a measuring mike with it. My AKG K712 pro headphones don't really need calibration, they are pretty flat and made for mixing/mastering purposes.
And, like said before, The F12-X200 loaded DIY-cab is just for my own fun. It's also my cab for gigs.

Ah... Thanks sir, ah no wonder can't find any about calibration, they use "PIMP" as keywords..

 

[Valhallir]

Ah... Thanks sir, ah no wonder can't find any about calibration, they use "PIMP" as keywords..

Yeah, i would instantly go to a store and buy a decent "pimp-mike" ;-) Now I'm gonna pimp my breakfast with some pimp-icles. ;-)

 

[japri]

Yeah, i would instantly go to a store and buy a decent "pimp-mike" ;-) Now I'm gonna pimp my breakfast with some pimp-icles. ;-)

Well, this teaches me to read the whole forum completely before make a comments. I just do a searching, found nothing and jump to the conclusion myself. i cannot agree more about the result you get from your celestion sir.
I also satisfied with this speaker.

 

[Rex]

Well...….

The Celestion performed flawlessly on my brothers' Kemper without any distortion whatsoever?

I hear you. But the fact that you can get a good sound out of it with everything turned down tells us that the Axe is delivering a good signal, and the distortion isnt coming from there. The fact that you get distortion when you turn up the Powerstage — with the same clean signal coming from the Axe — tells us that either the Powerstage or the speaker is distorting.

Playing well recorded music through the F12 produces fantastic clear sound at high volume levels??

What are using for a power amp when you're playing recorded music through the Celestion?

Also, Ive tried A Mesa 50/50 Poweramp And a Marshall EL34 50/50 both of which when connected to the Axe fx produce this distorted sound.

An audio clip of the distortion would help, especially if you also posted a clip of the non-distorted sound you want.

 

[Andy Eagle]

Try some different IRs.

 

[neale dunham]

Thanks for the support guys,

I used the Fryette Powerstation 2 to play music from spotify from my computer?

I guess that would be sufficient right? The Speaker doesn't sound blown in anyway when doing this. The speaker is either blown or its isn't. There cant be situation where the speaker has a component issue when using certain equipment, yet not when using different input sources surely?

I am going to try and make a recording of the speaker anomaly tomorrow and post it here so you guys can analyse it if you don't mind?

I have tried quite a few Ir's and they all seem to produce the same undesirable effect.

Why would trying different IR's make any difference though?

I was under the impression that this speaker would work well with all Ir's? I asked this question to Celestion and they replied saying that the speaker is basically a blank canvas to overlay your favourite Ir's. Which is what I want it to do!

One thing I don't quite understand is this: If this speaker is designed solely as a backline, amp-in-the room speaker, to offer guitarists
the natural feel of a guitar speaker...… Why does it need to be full range?? No Guitar speaker on earth is Full range. Not even close?

Also, How many of you guys on here have had success with this speaker and how are you using it. With what Poweramps, Cabinets and Axe fx settings etc.

In other words, is it just me that is experiencing this issue, and nobody else has ever encountered this??

Thanks.

 

[Chiguete]

I have find an easy way to correct this FRFR celestion speaker. we need to calibrate it with our eviroment.

because there is variable of Room, speaker placement, power amplifier coloration etc.

So i had use the global EQ settings in the AXE FX III. to correct this frequency response.

Get preset from leon tod preset, that to find speaker resonance. but change the sine wave to pink noise.

Using KRK audio tools. and then adjust the global EQ to flat as you can. with the help that brownish line (peak indicator).

to verify it, tell the apps to make eq recommendation. if you succeded it will tell you to set it to "FLAT EQ".

Now my speaker is sound so good. can do marshall sound, and fender sound like heaven in that JTM 45 blues lead preset.

I'm very happy now because this is the most economical FRFR solution available to me. i dont need to make any cabinet, just direct replacement.

it is sound very similiar to my v30 because i play it a lot.

And btw, I burn in my new speaker by playing song from itunes via axe FX for some hours did reduce the harshness of this speaker.

You should do a video of this because I most deffinetly need to do this to my cab with this speaker too.

 

[Rex]

Thanks for the support guys,

I used the Fryette Powerstation 2 to play music from spotify from my computer?

I guess that would be sufficient right? The Speaker doesn't sound blown in anyway when doing this. The speaker is either blown or its isn't. There cant be situation where the speaker has a component issue when using certain equipment, yet not when using different input sources surely?

I am going to try and make a recording of the speaker anomaly tomorrow and post it here so you guys can analyse it if you don't mind?

I have tried quite a few Ir's and they all seem to produce the same undesirable effect.

Why would trying different IR's make any difference though?

I was under the impression that this speaker would work well with all Ir's? I asked this question to Celestion and they replied saying that the speaker is basically a blank canvas to overlay your favourite Ir's. Which is what I want it to do!

One thing I don't quite understand is this: If this speaker is designed solely as a backline, amp-in-the room speaker, to offer guitarists
the natural feel of a guitar speaker...… Why does it need to be full range?? No Guitar speaker on earth is Full range. Not even close?

Also, How many of you guys on here have had success with this speaker and how are you using it. With what Poweramps, Cabinets and Axe fx settings etc.

In other words, is it just me that is experiencing this issue, and nobody else has ever encountered this??

Thanks.

The Axe can put out a much hotter signal than a computer. Are you going directly from the computer to the Powerstation?

Sometimes a cabinet has a loose screw or other component that can sound like distortion at loud levels, and the loose component might not always rattle.

Does the distortion sound like added distortion, or like differently-voiced distortion? If it's just a harsher form of the distortion that's already there, that might be a symptom of dialing in your presets at quiet volume. That will always sound more harsh at gig volume.

 

[neale dunham]

Yes, from computer to PowerStation.

In order to test the loose screw or component theory...….. I removed an Ev speaker from a Mesa Theile cabinet that I have and mounted in the Celestion designed cabinet. I then plugged my guitar into the Axe fx > through the Powerstation and straight to the cabinet at full blast, both Axe fx and PowerStation completely dimed.

Not a single buzz from the cabinet. Just a beautiful full fat clean tone......
......Using exactly the same Mesa Lonestar Clean preset. ?? Except with cab sims turned off obviously....

I also tried a number of different presets from Clean thru to high gain using the Ev speaker and everyone single one sounded useable to my ears compared with the F12-X200.

On reinstalling the F12 to the Celestion Designed cabinet and with Cab sims now re-instated. The buzzing immediately re-appeared and it is present on every single preset I have tried bar none. There is not a single preset within the Axe fx that makes this speaker sound useable to my ears.

I don't think the cabinet is at fault. Neither is the speaker at fault. Its just playing back what its being given.

That leaves Either the Powerstation or the Axe fx.

Now, Seeing as I have tried 3 other Poweramps and all of them replicate the same awful sound, what does that leave us with?

Is there any mileage in performing a total reset of the Axe fx?
Is there anything else I can look to change within the axe fx as no amount of Eq seems to cure the issue. If I lower the Bass frequencies using the Global EQ or in fact any EQ for arguments sake, all that happens is the overall sound becomes perceivably quieter due to the reduction in frequency and will lower the overall volume. As soon as I compensate for the reduction either by turning up the guitar, playing slightly harder or increasing the amp block volume etc. The buzzy distortion returns.

Its as if there is a predetermined sound threshold level as to when the distorting sound occurs. As soon as either the amp or axe fx reaches it, (depending on which you decide to boost) the speaker reacts by making the distorted noise in a most unpleasant way.

That's the best description I can give without a recording which I am aiming to produce tomorrow.

Where and how shall I post it?

Thanks Guys.

 

[unix-guy]

Yes, from computer to PowerStation.

In order to test the loose screw or component theory...….. I removed an Ev speaker from a Mesa Theile cabinet that I have and mounted in the Celestion designed cabinet. I then plugged my guitar into the Axe fx > through the Powerstation and straight to the cabinet at full blast, both Axe fx and PowerStation completely dimed.

Not a single buzz from the cabinet. Just a beautiful full fat clean tone......
......Using exactly the same Mesa Lonestar Clean preset. ?? Except with cab sims turned off obviously....

I also tried a number of different presets from Clean thru to high gain using the Ev speaker and everyone single one sounded useable to my ears compared with the F12-X200.

On reinstalling the F12 to the Celestion Designed cabinet and with Cab sims now re-instated. The buzzing immediately re-appeared and it is present on every single preset I have tried bar none. There is not a single preset within the Axe fx that makes this speaker sound useable to my ears.

I don't think the cabinet is at fault. Neither is the speaker at fault. Its just playing back what its being given.

That leaves Either the Powerstation or the Axe fx.

Now, Seeing as I have tried 3 other Poweramps and all of them replicate the same awful sound, what does that leave us with?

Is there any mileage in performing a total reset of the Axe fx?
Is there anything else I can look to change within the axe fx as no amount of Eq seems to cure the issue. If I lower the Bass frequencies using the Global EQ or in fact any EQ for arguments sake, all that happens is the overall sound becomes perceivably quieter due to the reduction in frequency and will lower the overall volume. As soon as I compensate for the reduction either by turning up the guitar, playing slightly harder or increasing the amp block volume etc. The buzzy distortion returns.

Its as if there is a predetermined sound threshold level as to when the distorting sound occurs. As soon as either the amp or axe fx reaches it, (depending on which you decide to boost) the speaker reacts by making the distorted noise in a most unpleasant way.

That's the best description I can give without a recording which I am aiming to produce tomorrow.

Where and how shall I post it?

Thanks Guys.

What kind of cables do you use to connect the Axe Fx to the power Amp?

What kind of cables do you use to connect the cab to the power amp?

I ask because a few years ago one of my coworkers who plays bought an Axe Fx on my recommendation. I later offered to sell him my ART SLA-2 after I bought a Matrix.

I let him borrow it to try out and he said it sounded horrible. I forget the exact details but he was either using speaker cables to connect Axe Fx to power amp or using instrument cables to connect amp to cab. Either way, wrong cables.

He refused to try again with the right cables and needless to say did not by the amp.

 

[Rex]

Yes, from computer to PowerStation.

In order to test the loose screw or component theory...….. I removed an Ev speaker from a Mesa Theile cabinet that I have and mounted in the Celestion designed cabinet. I then plugged my guitar into the Axe fx > through the Powerstation and straight to the cabinet at full blast, both Axe fx and PowerStation completely dimed.

Not a single buzz from the cabinet. Just a beautiful full fat clean tone......
......Using exactly the same Mesa Lonestar Clean preset. ?? Except with cab sims turned off obviously....

I also tried a number of different presets from Clean thru to high gain using the Ev speaker and everyone single one sounded useable to my ears compared with the F12-X200.

On reinstalling the F12 to the Celestion Designed cabinet and with Cab sims now re-instated. The buzzing immediately re-appeared and it is present on every single preset I have tried bar none. There is not a single preset within the Axe fx that makes this speaker sound useable to my ears.

I don't think the cabinet is at fault. Neither is the speaker at fault. Its just playing back what its being given.

That leaves Either the Powerstation or the Axe fx.

Now, Seeing as I have tried 3 other Poweramps and all of them replicate the same awful sound, what does that leave us with?

Is there any mileage in performing a total reset of the Axe fx?
Is there anything else I can look to change within the axe fx as no amount of Eq seems to cure the issue. If I lower the Bass frequencies using the Global EQ or in fact any EQ for arguments sake, all that happens is the overall sound becomes perceivably quieter due to the reduction in frequency and will lower the overall volume. As soon as I compensate for the reduction either by turning up the guitar, playing slightly harder or increasing the amp block volume etc. The buzzy distortion returns.

Its as if there is a predetermined sound threshold level as to when the distorting sound occurs. As soon as either the amp or axe fx reaches it, (depending on which you decide to boost) the speaker reacts by making the distorted noise in a most unpleasant way.

That's the best description I can give without a recording which I am aiming to produce tomorrow.

Where and how shall I post it?

Thanks Guys.

Post it here, or at least a link to it. I very much want to hear what this sounds like.

 

[zedeloc]

If you post your preset, someone who also has the
F12-X200 can test it and give feedback, or maybe record the audio.

 

[japri]

You should do a video of this because I most deffinetly need to do this to my cab with this speaker too.

erm... i dont think im an expert in doing RTA stuff, I'm a simple bed room guitar player and just discovered FRFR.

i just dig out this thread in this forum "User cab and IR" search this keyword
"[How To] Flatten your FRFR-Monitors"

Also there is so many way / tutorial to this if you search google and youtube...
but you need a specialize mic and software..

my simplified, far less accurate, poor man way is:

first Is to get the AXE FXIII play a continuous pink noise, i'm using leon tod's preset for cabinet resonance test from axe change, (ID 7122 search "CAB RES TEST" in axe change. And modified the the "synth" block and change the type to pink noise. now we got pink noise from the speaker and amp. dial the volume arround your playing volume.

Now we need to get a software. i'm using free KRK audio toolkit IOS/Android, watch tutorial on this youtube, search for "Introducing The KRK Audio Tools App" from KRK system youtube channel. (sorry cannot post link here the forum forbid it). So i using that peak hold function that guy mention in the youtube video around 1:39.

With that reference, I flatten that peak hold line as much as possible using global EQ in axeFX3. you need to dial it in the Axe FX 3 console. cannot be dial from axe edit. from setup menu->global setting, and then press next page.

I had to turn that peak hold function on and off to get new reading. and place your smart phone in your listening position. And then I use the eq recommendation in the app, to verify is it already flat. (video araound 4:24). mine is getting recomendation flat.

maybe i need to go with the eq recomendation first and the dial the EQ. but i was doing the way i explained above.

that's how i do it.

 

[neale dunham]

What kind of cables do you use to connect the Axe Fx to the power Amp?

What kind of cables do you use to connect the cab to the power amp?

I ask because a few years ago one of my coworkers who plays bought an Axe Fx on my recommendation. I later offered to sell him my ART SLA-2 after I bought a Matrix.

I let him borrow it to try out and he said it sounded horrible. I forget the exact details but he was either using speaker cables to connect Axe Fx to power amp or using instrument cables to connect amp to cab. Either way, wrong cables.

He refused to try again with the right cables and needless to say did not by the amp.

At one stage Unix I thought It could be the cables, Currently, I use a Xlr Cable from output 1 to stereo jack, into the Powerstation. This doesn't pose an issue using a standard speaker without a cab block. The sound is incredible.
To test the theory however, I used a standard guitar cord from output 3 (on YEK's recommendation) and as soon as cab sims are enabled the buzzy tone returns. This is using either type of cable, XLR or Standard guitar lead from any output of the Axe fx.