Celestion F12-X200 - new coaxial speaker for modelers

Nathan M. said:
Go to 1:17
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This video is an excellent demonstration of the effect of room resonances on sound, and how much that influences the way you hear a loudspeaker or anything else.

Listen to the presenter's voice. Listen to the background noise. The EQ of both changes radically at 1:17. Same source, same recording gear, different location.
 
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benvigil said:
The F12-X200 and the K12-H200TC look like they have VERY similar frequency response (in as much as their ranges overlap) including the bump at 1.0-2.0 kHz.
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From the response graphs, they appear to have very different responses:

- At 2 KHz, the responses differ by at least 6 dB.

- The response peaks of the two speakers differ by 500 Hz.

- The K12-H200TC falls off dramatically above 10 KHz, effectively stripping the "air" out of any program material you feed to it.


Based on the chart, I would expect these two speakers to sound very different from each other.
 
Isnt it common practice in powered frfr speakers to correct the response based on what is happening after the speaker is mounted in the enclosure? In other words a corrective eq built into the amp?
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
Isnt it common practice in powered frfr speakers to correct the response based on what is happening after the speaker is mounted in the enclosure? In other words a corrective eq built into the amp?
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Exactly, that's what the DSP does in powered speakers along with time and phase alignment.
I suppose even an atomic Clr or a xitone wouldn't be as flat without its processing.

One thing that probably doesn't make this speaker much versatile is its embedded crossover which makes it impossible to bi-amp.
 
Rex said:
Based on the chart, I would expect these two speakers to sound very different from each other.
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Well obviously. Did you even read my post?

Clearly they are different, which is why I described my comparison "in as much as their ranges overlap"??? The new speaker has a HF driver included. OF COURSE it's going to sound completely different above 1.5kHz or so! But the wizzer cone being removed and some geometry changes are enough to account for those differences IN THE RANGES WHERE THE PLOTS OVERLAP.

THAT was the point of my post, that Celestion most likely took the K12-H200TC and added a crossover/HF driver to come up with a new design, not that they sound the same.
 
Yes, I read your post. Earlier in the thread, I saw mention of a 3 KHz crossover. If that's the case, then some of the changes I listed are within the overlap.
 
Rex said:
Yes, I read your post. Earlier in the thread, I saw mention of a 3 KHz crossover. If that's the case, then some of the changes I listed are within the overlap.
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Exactly, That's why my first post said "The crossover would account for the 2k bump."
 
MicFarlow said:
Nah, I do not use the K12-H200TC in the MBritt. I use the FTX1225 and I do get lots of positive reviews on it. :)
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Mic, do you offer this MBrit (with the FTX1225) only as a passive cab, or do you also have a powered FRFR wedge with the same characteristics (and same FTX1225 driver) ? From your web site, I couldn't figure it out...
 
I wonder why they don't post the Xmax on that driver? maybe it's not that important most are usually 4-6 mm anyway.
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
Isnt it common practice in powered frfr speakers to correct the response based on what is happening after the speaker is mounted in the enclosure? In other words a corrective eq built into the amp?
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This speaker isn't meant for that kind of use IMO. If you want to to make a flat FRFR, you can start out with much flatter drivers. This is like an extended guitar speaker, the 2k peak you see is woofer cone breakup/resonance which you'd normally get rid of by crossing over below the frequency in a regular speaker.

DLC86 said:
I suppose even an atomic Clr or a xitone wouldn't be as flat without its processing.
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CLR doesn't do processing to make it flat. There's passive versions.

Sixstring said:
I wonder why they don't post the Xmax on that driver? maybe it's not that important most are usually 4-6 mm anyway.
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Doesn't post any specs for proper implementation. I think this is just a "put it in any cab" kind of driver, like we do with guitar speakers. Except this one has extended highs.
 
Hi Fractal users, I was considering buying a CLR Neo mk II but they are £999 which is a lot.

I have an AX8 and Axe FX 2 XL.

There is also the new Headrush but it is not coaxial.

I have read that the CLR Neo mk II is the best for use while programming fractal units so that your presets translate very similar sounds to FOH PA systems. This is why I was considering the CLR. It is important to dial in sounds at gig volume levels when dialing in presets I feel.

Anyway, just wondered how these Celestions F12-X200 would be best instaled - open backed. closed backed , ported etc. Any ideas?
 
Based on previous posts you can probably load it into any cab you like. Personally If I were to get that speaker I would get a inexpensive box that's already meant to do monitor work and load it in and give it a shot! so ported would be the way I would go but it would be interesting to try it in an open or closed back guitar cab as well.
 
deathbyguitar said:
Really curious to see what this could do in a Xitone. Mick, are you planning on testing one of these speakers out?
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I have been planning on testing this particular speaker for almost a year and a half. When I first became a Celestion dealer my sales rep told me that this speaker was in the works and he probably regrets it because I've asked him on a regular basis since then when I can get one. :)

Nathan M. said:
"Live Feel", "Live Response", they've created their own terminology and I suspect that little 2k bump has something to do with it. Maybe the added presence gives it some mojo and they feel that it's something unique. I guess we will all know when Mick gets his hands on one, puts it in a box and fires it up.
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That little bump at 2k is attributed to cone breakup as yeky83 mentions. And yes, I will start working with this speaker as soon as I can get my hands on one.

Dpoirier said:
Mic, do you offer this MBrit (with the FTX1225) only as a passive cab, or do you also have a powered FRFR wedge with the same characteristics (and same FTX1225 driver) ? From your web site, I couldn't figure it out...
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The MBritt is available only as an active as there is a need to control the driver when the port is open to keep it from over extending itself.
 
Mick, I hope you share your findings in a new thread when you get this speaker in your possession. I still plan on getting a sealed MBritt cab from you in the next few months regardless but I'm dying to see what you can do with this thing and if it'll be better or worse for that "amp in the room" thing.
 
MicFarlow said:
I have been planning on testing this particular speaker for almost a year and a half. When I first became a Celestion dealer my sales rep told me that this speaker was in the works and he probably regrets it because I've asked him on a regular basis since then when I can get one. :)
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Looking forward to see what you'll do with it!
 
deathbyguitar said:
Mick, I hope you share your findings in a new thread when you get this speaker in your possession. I still plan on getting a sealed MBritt cab from you in the next few months regardless but I'm dying to see what you can do with this thing and if it'll be better or worse for that "amp in the room" thing.
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I surely will! Thanks!

yeky83 said:
Looking forward to see what you'll do with it!
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Me too!
 
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