Celestion F12-X200 and SD Powerstage 170

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darkknight91

Inspired
Anyone running this combination? I have two of these speakers and when I hook either one up to the Powerstage it’s only powering the tweeter. No woofer. All buzzy high end. Talked to the guys at Sweetwater and they think the PS may not be enough power for the speaker. That seems unlikely to me but who knows. If anyone has these two pieces of gear can you let me know if they work together. If they do, something is wrong with my speakers.
 
I can't comment on the PS170, but as far as underpowering these speakers: I have a pair of F12's and have run them parallel out of -one- side of my Fryette LXII. So only a 50w amp running two 200w speakers.
This is in a smallish room (10x11) and I don't crank it much over 70 dB (max 90dB)...so definitely not using much of that 50 watts. I've also tried it at lower volumes where the fan from the LXII interfered with the sound...even in this situation the speakers worked perfectly.

I'd think there was something not right with the speakers themselves.
 
you are running in parallel @ 4 ohms which is what he needs to try. That's also 50w of tube power.
 
Yes, I’m running one speaker off of the Powerstage at 8 ohms. Seems like it should have no problems powering one. I know guys are running the 700 version with no problems. Just wondering if anyone is using the 170 to drive one. Its weird that both speakers are doing the same thing. I could see one being damaged but not both. I don’t know how they could’ve gotten damaged as they both worked last time I used them a couple months ago.
 
I made a couple of cabs for these speakers with the option to chain them together for 4 ohms and the 170 will definitely drive them. I can't remember trying them alone though.
 
mj3 said:
you are running in parallel @ 4 ohms which is what he needs to try. That's also 50w of tube power.
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50w of tube power would only make a difference if it were cranked...and that's only regarding clipping...not whether it can/will handle two (or one) 200w speakers.

It's pretty common knowledge that watts are watts and that a cranked tube power amp vs a SS amp.... clipping/headroom is the difference. If both amp types were run at very low volume, where no clipping is occurring, there wouldn't be any difference in ability to power these speakers. There may be tonal differences... but that's all.

The tube amp will have desirable/pleasant clipping and the SS amp will have nasty clipping.

That could be what's wrong with the OP's speakers? Maybe the SD170 is clipping?

One other possibility is the signal being too hot from the Fractal unit. I happen to also have an SD700 and when I first plugged the F12's into it, I had what sounds like a similar issue to the OP. It turned out my output one level was clipping...way too hot going into the SD700. As soon as I lowered that it sounded correct.
 
Seems there may have been a similar discussion about this in one of the mega threads for these speakers.
 
mj3 said:
Seems there may have been a similar discussion about this in one of the mega threads for these speakers.
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I looked for any info and couldn’t find anyone using this setup. I’ll try backing off the signal from the Fractal and see what that does.

update: made no difference with levels.
 
I've complained about using these in an underpowered rig a number of times. Then I ran two of them with a 50 watt tube head and they sound ridiculous :neutral::hearteyes:
 
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darkknight91 said:
I looked for any info and couldn’t find anyone using this setup. I’ll try backing off the signal from the Fractal and see what that does.

update: made no difference with levels.
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Yeah, maybe it's the head room availability in the 170..?

I can't imagine it's the lack of power as between both the LXII and the 700, there were only slight tonal variations at -very- low volumes.

Does it happen with your 170 at levels as low as 50 to 60dB?
 
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hmm - interesting if incompatible - I would not have thought to consider if an otherwise compatible SS power amp would not have enough wattage to even move the speaker's cones properly (I'd of expected just not as loud as with a higher wattage amp tho my ehx 44 watt pedal amps into V30s are enough to blow the windows out when cranked).

you do have cabinet modelling turned on eh? (could sound like a tinny mess if off).
 
sprint said:
you do have cabinet modelling turned on eh? (could sound like a tinny mess if off).
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Yeah, it seems like either this or a headroom issue.

I'm certainly not "The Expert"... but having been around amps & speakers etc for nearly 40 years now, I can't think of anything else 😬
 
I’ve tried with cab modeling on and off. Makes no difference. It’s only the tweeter working. No matter how loud I turn it up only the tweeter is on.

Thanks for the link. I’ll read up on it.
 
Justincase said:
Here's an article on testing speakers with a multimeter. May help.

https://virtuosocentral.com/tag/how-to-test-a-speaker-with-a-multimeter/
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I checked and am getting no reading on the speaker. It’s a coaxial so it may not register correctly. I touched a 9V battery to the speaker terminals and got a faint click as from the tweeter. The Matrix amp may have damaged the coils. There was a burning smell when the amp went in to protection mode. I assumed it was the amp but it may have been the speaker coils.
 
darkknight91 said:
I checked and am getting no reading on the speaker. It’s a coaxial so it may not register correctly. I touched a 9V battery to the speaker terminals and got a faint click as from the tweeter. The Matrix amp may have damaged the coils. There was a burning smell when the amp went in to protection mode. I assumed it was the amp but it may have been the speaker coils.
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Coaxial or not it should be 8ohm....man that sucks. I bet the speaker is fried. So what exactly happened with what amp? An underpowered amp clipping is the easiest way to fry a voice coil. Those speakers can handle 500w peak so they have no problem running at program volume.
 
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I was onstage with a Matrix 1000 and all of a sudden the amp goes into protection mode and I can’t get it back on. I smell something burning and assumed it was the amp. when I got home the amp came back on but one of the channels is cooked. I have two 1x12 cabinets with the F12’s so I tested it again and there goes the burning smell as the amp shuts down. I think I accidentally plugged the undamaged speaker into the amp when I tested it and it fried both speakers. I didn’t know the first speaker was fried at the time. Just bad luck when I tested it. Can these things be repaired or are they done?
 
darkknight91 said:
I was onstage with a Matrix 1000 and all of a sudden the amp goes into protection mode and I can’t get it back on. I smell something burning and assumed it was the amp. when I got home the amp came back on but one of the channels is cooked. I have two 1x12 cabinets with the F12’s so I tested it again and there goes the burning smell as the amp shuts down. I think I accidentally plugged the undamaged speaker into the amp when I tested it and it fried both speakers. I didn’t know the first speaker was fried at the time. Just bad luck when I tested it. Can these things be repaired or are they done?
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Sounds like your amp is to blame...shitty. Channel shorted and blew the speaker then you plugged the other into the bad channel and blew it as well.... double shitty. IDK..I'd contact celestion and tell them what happened and see if they can help you out.

Sorry to hear your misfortune
 
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