Can't tell if it's my mix or my tone

MetalGarret

Inspired


Here's where I'm at now.

I just realized that when it comes to mixing I have no guidance. I'd still be taking classes had I had time but thanks to full time job that's not possible. SO here I am!

My issues are that I feel I'm not filling the spectrum with my instruments. I feel like the guitars should be bigger. The bass and the kick drum are fighting each other's frequencies and for some reason, even with an analyzer, I can't get the kicks their own space away from the bass properly. Matter of fact I don't think I'm mixing the kicks properly at all.

As far as my guitars, I can't tell if my tone is too thin or if maybe there's something in my mix that I can do to make them more dominant. My bass is either too much or not enough. I try to make it less muddy but when I do I lose life from it.

The guitars are doubled left and right stereo tracks and are bussed together in PT10 with an S1 Stereo Imager and Massey Tapehead plugins with some EQ to cut some lows and make them less flubby.

The bass is EQ'd and has an AUX track with SanzAmp distortion. Both audio and aux tracks are bussed together with compression on the bus track.

Anything else you hear I'd like to know about. I greatly appreciate it!
 
Yea I hear what you're sayin, the guitars sound good, they are way high in the mix though, and they aren't thick & heavy sounding cause of the lack of bass guitar.

It's really 90% the bass that makes a guitar sound huge & heavy.

With that being said: any good mix starts with the drums.. A good sounding kick can make or break an entire mix. Start with getting the drums right.. Then bass, then guitar(s).

Sounds like the kick is possibly okay, maybe a boost at 60-70Hz a cut at 140-200 and a little boost 3.5-4.5kHz. Use a parametric and dial in and around those freq's.

Same freq's for the bass guitar, but vary it a bit so ur not fighting sonic space..,
 
Needs more mids

Where tho?

Yea I hear what you're sayin, the guitars sound good, they are way high in the mix though, and they aren't thick & heavy sounding cause of the lack of bass guitar.

It's really 90% the bass that makes a guitar sound huge & heavy.

With that being said: any good mix starts with the drums.. A good sounding kick can make or break an entire mix. Start with getting the drums right.. Then bass, then guitar(s).

Sounds like the kick is possibly okay, maybe a boost at 60-70Hz a cut at 140-200 and a little boost 3.5-4.5kHz. Use a parametric and dial in and around those freq's.

Same freq's for the bass guitar, but vary it a bit so ur not fighting sonic space..,

Ok! Ill try that when I get home later. But it seems like what you're telling me is that the bass tone should compliment the guitar tone. and be more than just an instrument that provides the lows. is that right?
 
I've recently started mixing Bass first. Set your bass at -18dbs. Then bring up vocals (if you have them) Kick, overhead, guitars, snare then everything else. It really helped me get the bass in the right part of the mix. For what you posted I'd say more kids, more volume on the guitars, or less on the drums.
 
Double track your guitars properly - that pseudo stereo won't cut it. In fact track the guitars 8 times, 4 times with your heavy tone and 4 times with gain backed off. That would be a solid start, you will be amazed.
 
Double track your guitars properly - that pseudo stereo won't cut it. In fact track the guitars 8 times, 4 times with your heavy tone and 4 times with gain backed off. That would be a solid start, you will be amazed.

8 times?!? Jesus! With the riffs I'm doing for this album that's gonna be seriously difficult. John Petrucci only doubles his guitars and, well you know how he sounds.
 
8 times?!? Jesus! With the riffs I'm doing for this album that's gonna be seriously difficult. John Petrucci only doubles his guitars and, well you know how he sounds.

Its not supposed to be easy mate! I can tell you that 4 times is the absolute minimum I would do and 8 is pretty normal these days. I can hear AT LEAST 4 tracks on most Petrucci riffs. He's a phenomenally technical player so it can be hard to differentiate them but I assure you they are there. Give it a try on your easiest riff - it's the secret sauce.
 
honestly i dont think layering yourself is absolutely necessary. do whatever makes it sound good to you
 
honestly i dont think layering yourself is absolutely necessary. do whatever makes it sound good to you

I know there's no right and wrong here. But I'm trying my best to sound like the pros with what I have. And I've heard people's work sound more pro than mine with less than what I have it seems. I know I have the tools to do it. I just haven't mastered how to use them yet. :(
 
Where tho?



Ok! Ill try that when I get home later. But it seems like what you're telling me is that the bass tone should compliment the guitar tone. and be more than just an instrument that provides the lows. is that right?

You don't have to worry so much about the bass tone "matching" the guitar tone.. What ya want is it to take up & fill out the low end, 100Hz & below.. I like some boost around 60-80 and to compliment that and bring out the definition some boost around 4kHz.. If it's "woofy & flubby" find the freq, usually somewhere between 140-240Hz & cut it..

Ya really gotta learn your eq frequencys & it becomes much easier.. And learn how to properly compress, those are your two best friends!!

And this is all just generalizations, every mix is different..

And always remember, when it comes to eq you are always better off cutting than boosting..
 
The drums sound like they've got a bit too much wooliness or mud to them. Try backing off the room mic a bit or at least highpassing at lets say ~700hz to start with and see if that makes a big difference. Your guitars are nicely up front but the drums sound like they're at the back of the room, around a corner.

Are you using the default kit from Superior 2.0? It's a great kit but has been used to death and is pretty easily recognisable. And the default settings sound great and natural and detailed in the demos that toontrack have but some tweaking is really needed to get things right in a metal context. There are some pretty cool presets out there though that can be a good starting point for you, have a look over on the ultimate metal forums.

Something I struggled with in the beginning was a buildup of too much low mids across the mix, which just kills everything. If you're not sure try using a frequency analyzer and comparing to some commercial mixes and looking around that 120hz - 500hz range. 2 or 3 db here and there makes a massive difference.
 
That's a dick-ish thing to say. You're saying his playing is fake? I think it sounds great! I would copy the track you did, and there you go...doubled! No need to re-record if it's a great take...especially when you're the one recording it and not someone trying to belittle you.

Double track your guitars properly - that pseudo stereo won't cut it. In fact track the guitars 8 times, 4 times with your heavy tone and 4 times with gain backed off. That would be a solid start, you will be amazed.
 
That's a dick-ish thing to say. You're saying his playing is fake? I think it sounds great! I would copy the track you did, and there you go...doubled! No need to re-record if it's a great take...especially when you're the one recording it and not someone trying to belittle you.

No. Just... no. I have no intention of insulting the guy's playing. HOWEVER... copying a recorded track is absolutely, 100% pointless (unless reamping is involved and the sole point is to get different amp tones on each side. But even with that, it makes much more sense to record 2 tracks). If you copy a track and pan them opposite all you get is a mono track that's a bit louder. That is NOT what he wants.

OP, I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you're saying you're doing with the guitar tracks. Are you recording one for left and one for right, or are you just putting the same recording on each side?
Do not track the guitar 8 times. For what you're playing, do 4 tracks max. No one in their right mind is doing 8 takes for guitar parts like these. Maybe if there are actually multiple guitar parts going on at once, but never when the guitars are playing the same thing.

Next question: what are you mixing through? Monitors? Headphones?
The bass definitely sounds too low and the guitars too high. Think of the bass and guitar (and all the instruments really) like a layer cake. Right now you have a bit of a gap between the bass layer and guitar layer. Bring the bass layer up to the guitar, so they are more cohesive. The lack of "thickness" in your guitars is actually, most likely, a problem with the bass, not the guitars. Use an eq in the bass to carve out a section where the kick is going to be, but give the bass a bit more high end so it gets up there to that guitar layer.
 
Sorry I insinuated...pseudo is a harsh word to say about someone's recording.

No. Just... no. I have no intention of insulting the guy's playing. HOWEVER... copying a recorded track is absolutely, 100% pointless (unless reamping is involved and the sole point is to get different amp tones on each side. But even with that, it makes much more sense to record 2 tracks). If you copy a track and pan them opposite all you get is a mono track that's a bit louder. That is NOT what he wants.

OP, I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you're saying you're doing with the guitar tracks. Are you recording one for left and one for right, or are you just putting the same recording on each side?
Do not track the guitar 8 times. For what you're playing, do 4 tracks max. No one in their right mind is doing 8 takes for guitar parts like these. Maybe if there are actually multiple guitar parts going on at once, but never when the guitars are playing the same thing.

Next question: what are you mixing through? Monitors? Headphones?
The bass definitely sounds too low and the guitars too high. Think of the bass and guitar (and all the instruments really) like a layer cake. Right now you have a bit of a gap between the bass layer and guitar layer. Bring the bass layer up to the guitar, so they are more cohesive. The lack of "thickness" in your guitars is actually, most likely, a problem with the bass, not the guitars. Use an eq in the bass to carve out a section where the kick is going to be, but give the bass a bit more high end so it gets up there to that guitar layer.
 


I am indeed using the NY avatar kit. Unfortunately, it's all I got. :(

So I cut some frequencies off the bass at around 240 or so. I cut around 32hz too because it's kind of overbearing there. 62hz is notched down a hair but it's still heard. I changed the guitar tone with one that has more drive to it and is a bit brighter. I took off the C6 multiband comp that was on the master because I felt it wasn't doing any good the way I had it. I remixed my kick drums so that they have their own space in the mix. Hows this?
 
No matter how many times you track , if you don't create a space for each instrument ( EQ per track and part) so they don't get in each others space ,along with proper compression it will be a rabbit chase.
 


I am indeed using the NY avatar kit. Unfortunately, it's all I got. :(

So I cut some frequencies off the bass at around 240 or so. I cut around 32hz too because it's kind of overbearing there. 62hz is notched down a hair but it's still heard. I changed the guitar tone with one that has more drive to it and is a bit brighter. I took off the C6 multiband comp that was on the master because I felt it wasn't doing any good the way I had it. I remixed my kick drums so that they have their own space in the mix. Hows this?


Just go all in and grab Metal Machine, your starting point will be much closer for the drums and they are IMHO the best of Toontracks metal packs. And you dont need to track more that 4 takes. I do rhythm guitars L and R and thats it. Double tracked works better for metal IMO, quad tracking is better for rock because it has a smearing effect no matter how good of a player you are. If need be, do three takes and pan one to the middle with the bass, but just keep that real low in the mix. Its preference really.

And copy and pasting the track, even if you reamped it and throw a 25ms delay on one side is still going to have that certain sound. Better off just sticking with doing a real double.
 
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