Can't get good recording tones, what am I doing wrong?

Can't you re-amp while listening to it in the mix without a Focusrite? This dude seems to just be using the Axe-Fx II:

No hes just reamping the dry signal back to the axe and recording the result back in the daw... if you want to hear it in the mix you need to "monitor" the other tracks without feeding them back into the axe, like this guy explains:
 
No hes just reamping the dry signal back to the axe and recording the result back in the daw... if you want to hear it in the mix you need to "monitor" the other tracks without feeding them back into the axe, like this guy explains:


Awesome video. Beware though, read the comments. The guy who made the video said he's since learned that it's the "poor mans method" of reamping live. He says to do it properly, you need a re-amp box + focusrite (not sure if a 2i2 would work in this case), because the level of the track you are sending out of the DAW is different than the original level going out of the Axe, which impacts/colours the tone. Apparently the re-amp box would convert the output of the DAW into the correct level for re-amping. So if I'm not mistaken it would be DAW --> Re-amp box --> Axe-Fx II --> Focusrite --> Back to DAW
 
Well spotted! I didn't pick up on that. Will have to do some more research on that to understand it better (or wait till this beer wears off )
 
Try NOT to use the AXE as soundcard but use Ex. a USB soundbox and set the output from out (backside of the Axe) directly into the USB soundcard. And of cause be aware of clipping in the chain of devices...
 
Try NOT to use the AXE as soundcard but use Ex. a USB soundbox and set the output from out (backside of the Axe) directly into the USB soundcard. And of cause be aware of clipping in the chain of devices...

Hi Kavevester, can you elaborate please? Why shouldn't the Axe be used? I noticed in the first video link posted in this thread that he puts the Axe to the Input of his USB interface. You're saying that will provide better results than using the Axe directly as the soundcard? or are you speaking about when re-amping specifically?

I did tests by using the Axe as the sound card for just recording (not re-amping) and compared it to when I recorded via Spdif from the Axe going into my Digi002 and I couldn't hear any difference.
 
Using the axe as a sound card is forcing it to run all your DAWs effects and tracks as well as the modeling it's already doing. Even on simpler projects you're gonna easily tap out the axe's cpu so using a USB sound card let's the axe solely handle the guitars
 
Well spotted! I didn't pick up on that. Will have to do some more research on that to understand it better (or wait till this beer wears off )

So does that mean, to do it properly with a re-amp box down the road, the Focusrite 2i2 will be fine? If you go DAW --> Re-amp box --> Axe-Fx II --> Focusrite --> DAW..... that means you only need the 2 outputs for the monitors on the Focusrite? Hmmm... I'm having the same decision to face as you, whether to get the 2i2 which is $199.99, or the 2i4 which is $269.99 (in Canada). Until a re-amp box is purchased, could just re-amp without the whole mix? Or just purchase the 2i4 and do the "poor man's method" of re-amping in the mix... although I'm not sure how much that'll colour the tone.
 
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Using the axe as a sound card is forcing it to run all your DAWs effects and tracks as well as the modeling it's already doing. Even on simpler projects you're gonna easily tap out the axe's cpu so using a USB sound card let's the axe solely handle the guitars

Huh? Using the AxeFx as a sound card basically just makes it the audio input/output device for your computer. It doesn't ever run anything like DAW effects.

Using it as an interface does take up a little CPU, though I don't recall how much. At any rate, the amount isn't going to be affected by the complexity of anything going on in your DAW.
 
Huh? Using the AxeFx as a sound card basically just makes it the audio input/output device for your computer. It doesn't ever run anything like DAW effects.

Using it as an interface does take up a little CPU, though I don't recall how much. At any rate, the amount isn't going to be affected by the complexity of anything going on in your DAW.
IIRC about 5% for USB.... Not much.

And you're right about DAW stuff. It does not make the Axe run any daw fx and stuff. Only in&out.
If you prefer the sound of another units front end/preamps, that is something completly different though.

I use my Axe as a tool for guitar recording. No need for anything else, unless i have to mic something.
 
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I haven't noticed any hit on cpu other than the usual usb hit (which I always have because I can't use the front panel well!)

Really not convinced on the need for a re-amp box. This is done for the volume level is that correct? If so, the box adds very little from what I can see, just use slider in daw instead?
 
So does that mean, to do it properly with a re-amp box down the road, the Focusrite 2i2 will be fine? If you go DAW --> Re-amp box --> Axe-Fx II --> Focusrite --> DAW..... that means you only need the 2 outputs for the monitors on the Focusrite? Hmmm... I'm having the same decision to face as you, whether to get the 2i2 which is $199.99, or the 2i4 which is $269.99 (in Canada). Until a re-amp box is purchased, could just re-amp without the whole mix? Or just purchase the 2i4 and do the "poor man's method" of re-amping in the mix... although I'm not sure how much that'll colour the tone.
I think with only the monitor outputs you can only "offline" reamp. Nothing wrong with that of course just a little more time consuming. I like the idea of being able to hear the mix whilst tweaking your reamp tone.... Then hitting record! It's the 2i4 for me or a much more expensive audient interface which I'm considering at the moment as I want to record vocals too and they are supposed t be brilliant for that
 
I haven't noticed any hit on cpu other than the usual usb hit (which I always have because I can't use the front panel well!)

Really not convinced on the need for a re-amp box. This is done for the volume level is that correct? If so, the box adds very little from what I can see, just use slider in daw instead?

Yes for volume. I'm just curious as if it will be useful to do it this way with a 2i4, because in the comments the guy who made the video says:

"This method is a really poor mans way of doing it which gives most people noise. I got noise USB and analog. So get a DI Reamp box and you'll be gravy!"

and some guy commented saying this:

"But after sending the dry through the rear input, I noticed the Input orange led on the front of the Axe didn't light up, but when I recorded, it did. So my lead tone barely crunches after being reamped , compared to my reference wet signal, which is so angry it could blow off my walls :D"

then op replies:

"Hey! Thanks for watching, I've actually made some advancements in knowledge since this video and found that the track you send out isn't the same type of level (line level, mic level etc etc) as when you first play in to the Axe FX. What you need to be able to do it properly is a re-amp box, where you would send the signal back into the re-amp box then out of the re-amp box into your Axe FX and into your Focusrite.
The Reamp box converts the output from the DAW into the correct level for reamping properly (at least that how my head works it out hahaha).
I think the way this video portray re-amping is more of a "Poor mans" way of doing it. There are definitely better methods around which I didn't know about back then! Look up re-amp boxes!"

If you jack up the volume using a slider in DAW, wouldn't that just change the overall level? But it seems somehow, according to that guy, that the change in volume affected his lead tone (less crunch as he explains). This is the confusing part to me. If jacking up the volume of the guitar track in DAW fixes this then that's great, if not, I'll have second thoughts on the 2i4 and just go with a 2i2. In my area, I can get a 2i2 for $90 used (regular $199.99), or a 2i4 for $200 used (regular $269.99). So if this can be done properly I'd pick up the 2i4, if not, might as well save the $110 as I'd probably never use the other outputs for anything else.
 
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Yes for volume. I'm just curious as if it will be useful to do it this way with a 2i4, because in the comments the guy who made the video says:

"This method is a really poor mans way of doing it which gives most people noise. I got noise USB and analog. So get a DI Reamp box and you'll be gravy!"

and some guy commented saying this:............

Interesting stuff!! I think it all comes down to impedance, check out this other thread:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threa...nput-impedance-for-recording-dry-track.82722/

The last comment seems most interesting so I'm going to investigate that further.
I'm not sure what you're looking for here - I think you have answered your own question...


  1. You know that the impedance going into the Axe is 1Mohm (albeit adjustable)
  2. You know that the impedance going into the RME is 470K ohms (less than half)
  3. You state that higher (1M) impedance gets you a fuller, higher amplitude signal
  4. You state that lower (470K) impedance gets you a tinny sound with less amplitude

Unfortunately you cannot set the Axe to 470K to see if it sounds the same as a the RME.

This almost seems like the old story/joke:

Patient - "Dr. - it hurts when I twist my fingers"
Dr. - "Well then, don't twist your fingers"

Guitar Player - "My signal sounds tinny when recording/DI'ing through the RME"
Audio engineer - "Then don't DI through the RME (use the Axe instead)"

Solution 1: Simplest solution appears to be to use the Axe to record your DI signal digitally (i.e. via USB).
- ADVANTAGES: No extra hardware required; you can record without taking up extra channels on your RME
- LIMITATIONS: You must record at 48Khz


Solution 2: Another possible solution - get a real DI box that's made for guitar (I use a Radial JDV) and let it manage the impedance the guitar sees. The Radial's also have an adjustment called 'drag' that lets you adjust the load on your guitar's pickups.
- ADVANTAGES: Record at any sampling rate/bit depth you want
- LIMITATIONS: Costs more than the first solution; Takes additional I/O channel(s)

Good luck!
:eagerness:

But we have digressed from our original topic a little here!.... how is the recording going did you try my patch at all? I'm find mine a little muddy on some of my speakers and need to work on that when I get time (though I like the sound of it on the monitors). Wondering if I need to connect up the "cheaper" speakers to my DAW so I can work on improving the sound from them....

EDIT: Cheapest offering from Radial I can find: https://www.studiospares.com/Microp...LkOfUR0jWFm6najOf85gY-enYfwAkili0gRoCBFbw_wcB
 
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Hey all - Steve and I tried out some other settings last night with the Axe, but ended up keeping the guitar preset we made for our last posts. We compared the new ones to the one from last week and they were good, but the tracks seemed to not sit as well once everything was in place.

We then messed around with a bass guitar and created our own preset from others and was able to come up with something surprisingly good within 15 minutes or so.

I extended the intro and made the drums more similar to the actual song (All That Remains - This Calling). It's getting pretty close to the actual song in my opinion. Can you guys use your ears and let us know what you hear that's different or missing/too much of in our recordings from All That Remain's actual song?

It's pretty crazy to think that everything you hear in our recording was made digitally (samples from a digital drum set and Axe fx for guitars/bass.)

There are details on the soundcloud page for our recording:


Mak, I'd suggest not using your cheaper speakers to mix, I doubt that would help. You should mix it with good monitors and then test it out on various speakers (car, iPhone, earbuds, home stereo system etc.) and from there make small changes to find the best sound based on ALL of the systems you listened to the track on.

Thanks!
 
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Sounding good on my cheap speakers! :) I would agree slightly too much drums for me too.

That's what I've been doing - moving the song over to the other PC to play it but all the back and forth and changing EQ without knowing if it's going to work or not is getting annoying! How do you guys do it? Just persevere?
 
Cool - thanks for the feedback! We can try cutting some distortion and reducing the drums a bit for our next attempt. Steve and I are definitely improving the overall sound I think. It looks like using some basic good sounding amps and cabs in the Axe Fx 2 and then tweaking them to what sounds good to us is the way to go.

Mak, I actually have desktop speakers connected to my Mac as well as my studio monitors, so when I offline bounce a recording I can then listen immediately to what it sounds like on the desktop speakers.

Since I mixed with the studio monitors, it provides a quick A and B playback setup. I also downloaded the soundcloud app for my iPhone and since I have been uploading our stuff to soundcloud, while I'm driving to work, I listen to the recordings via the soundcloud app with my car's speakers.
 
Sounding good on my cheap speakers! :) I would agree slightly too much drums for me too.

That's what I've been doing - moving the song over to the other PC to play it but all the back and forth and changing EQ without knowing if it's going to work or not is getting annoying! How do you guys do it? Just persevere?

What monitors do you use? That could have an impact. So far, what we've recorded seems to sound pretty good on our Logitech computer speakers as well. Obviously sound quality (with any track) is not going to be as good since they are not monitors. Going through this process so far, I've really noticed what people have been saying when you compare tone in mix vs. stand alone tone. Your tone sounds pretty good on its own, but like you said, may sound muddy in the mix b/c of too much low end etc. It's like when I'm playing alone through my 4x12 I like to crank the bass higher to feel that "power" when chugging, but turn it down when playing with the band. For the preset we used in Will's above post, there was more emphasis on mids, treble, presence. Lowered bass and gain. It sounds thinner, not as powerful, but some of that was made up for when we put bass into the equation. Not my favourite stand alone tone but worked decently in the mix vs. our other testings thus far. I haven't tried your preset yet in our tuning (D standard). I'll try that this weekend. It's final exam period so things have been hectic!

Also, if you read the SoundCloud notes you'll see that we did some slight EQing on the guitars in ProTools. Just a small high pass and low pass, and slight dip around a shitty sounding frequency in the lower mids. The high and low pass seems to tighten things up a bit.

tone wise i think it's much better, although i think it could use less gain.

mix wise i think the drums are a little loud, but that's preference.

Gain was pretty low, I'll try lower. Could just be my sloppy playing :D



Any other suggestions? All the feedback so far is greatly appreciated! Small things here and there from all the generous feedback has already helped us make significant improvements from our starting point. Still much to learn though.
 
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What monitors do you use? That could have an impact. So far, what we've recorded seems to sound pretty good on our Logitech computer speakers as well. Obviously sound quality (with any track) is not going to be as good since they are not monitors. Going through this process so far, I've really noticed what people have been saying when you compare tone in mix vs. stand alone tone. Your tone sounds pretty good on its own, but like you said, may sound muddy in the mix b/c of too much low end etc. It's like when I'm playing alone through my 4x12 I like to crank the bass higher to feel that "power" when chugging, but turn it down when playing with the band. For the preset we used in Will's above post, there was more emphasis on mids, treble, presence. Lowered bass and gain. It sounds thinner, not as powerful, but some of that was made up for when we put bass into the equation. Not my favourite stand alone tone but worked decently in the mix vs. our other testings thus far. I haven't tried your preset yet in our tuning (D standard). I'll try that this weekend. It's final exam period so things have been hectic!

Also, if you read the SoundCloud notes you'll see that we did some slight EQing on the guitars in ProTools. Just a small high pass and low pass, and slight dip around a shitty sounding frequency in the lower mids. The high and low pass seems to tighten things up a bit.



Gain was pretty low, I'll try lower. Could just be my sloppy playing :D



Any other suggestions? All the feedback so far is greatly appreciated! Small things here and there from all the generous feedback has already helped us make significant improvements from our starting point. Still much to learn though.

Yeah that makes perfect sense!! I'm using Yam HS5's. It sounds great on them but much muddier than yours on my cheaper speakers. I need to do some EQ-ing!
 
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