Can't get a good full clean sound? (beginner)

T

tommyq94

Member
Hey everyone,

Im having trouble getting a full and rich clean tone as shown in this video -

At the beginning of the video and at 20:00 mins, it just sounds so much more full than what I can achieve (as a beginner).

He explains his guitar rig at 21:42


My tones are a bit 'tinny' and harsh/frizzle sounding. I think a lot of this is due to the Cabinet maybe? It sounds very basic, all im using is a Fender Deluxe Amp and cabinet and move the microphone to the outside via Dynacab.

I genuinely think that the tone WITHOUT any cabinet sounds closer to getting a full sound, why is that? The Cab makes everything sound a bit more flat and condensed.

Can anyone please help me achieve this tone? Im a bit overwhelmed with FM3 Edit. I use Telecaster into UMC404HD into Ableton Live 12.

I am willing to pay anyone for a preset like this also! :)
 
At 20:00 The room mic is picking up his voice and the sound of the guitar unplugged mixed in with the daw monitors.
It also sounds like an eq tilted to the higher frequencies in the daw.
 
Hi,
Nothing fancy in this video. (only watched a few moments to be honest). And no need to pay for anything to get a good "clean " sound.
Note that he uses a mic preamp and a compressor /limiter plugin, which helps to make the sound fuller. You have that in the fractal (at least in an AXE FIII, I don't own a FM3)
Have a look on the excellent videos from Burgs (Brett Kingman on YT), lots of great cleans and explanations. And in case you didn't, read the manual ;-)
 
It'd be helpful if you can post your preset to see what you're doing exactly.

It's best to treat modelers, especially as one that's so focused on accuracy like fractal stuff, like a real amp. If you never had experience using real tube amps before, it can be challenging.

That being said, there's nothing too crazy about his clean tone (it's worth noting that you're also hearing the sound of his strings from the camera mic as well, which isn't typically what you want).

Check out this video:

You can see how this guy dials in a pretty good tone with a deluxe reverb amp model. He uses a compressor but you don't need to do that if you want to keep it simple.

It's worth noting that he has the gain on 5 and actually gets a little bit of dirt on his tone, especially when he plays on the bridge pickup. Real twin reverbs do this with the gain around there (it's also incredibly loud). If you want it even cleaner, don't be afraid to go as low as a 2 or 3
 
There are some good clean tones in the stock presets and also some of the folks that sell presets have some great examples. Both @fremen and @austinbuddy have some great examples which might make good starting points. Both of them have packs focused specifically on clean tones. @Burgs has a TON of really great presets he shares for free. Just look at his forum posts here in which he usually has an accompanying video and link to the axechange download for the presets. Even if they are for the FM9 or III many of them will still load in the FM3 or will if you eliminate a block or two.
 
If you want a clean tone with a little more body and depth, the Car Roamer model is pretty good for that. It's got more 'weight' than a lot of the Fender models.

When I first got the FM3, I was using the '65 Bassguy Normal - which delivers excellent high-endy clean tones, but is a little thin. The Roamer has more of a round tone to it. Might be worth a try.
 
The Eric Johnson preset clean is awesome!
Moving so FM3 is not out….I’m sad..😢

Just mute effects if you want natural clean….
 
To start from the beginning ... what are you listening to the FM3 though - headphones, monitor speakers, and amp and cab? The FM3 is very sensitive to what you plug it into, and what you plug into it!

Also, you should optimise the FM3 for the listening (or performance environment). If using monitors or headphones, make sure amp and speaker modelling is turned on in the Global settings. Make sure you've set the output to the right settings (eg line level, unity gain, +4db, -10db). Are you listening in stereo or mono - if mono, have you "collapsed" the sound? For example copying Left to Right, or summing them together? If not you may be missing half the sound, or you could have phasing issues (ie cancelling half or more of the sound).

All of these settings will have a significant impact on the sound quality of all presets.

Hope this helps :)
 
I think that I posted something similar on your reddit post about this, and since I'm actually at my computer now, I'll just post this preset I threw together real quick. It's started with the same Eric Johnson from ACL tone I mentioned in that post, but then I added a Manhattan clean and 2 "metal/rock" cleans that I saved from other presets and copied them here. It's basically 4 different cleans that have an ambient and an un-ambient, aside from the Manhattan clean, which I threw a Control Switch thingy in there to give an T808Mod boost that sounds pretty dope!

Your original post said something about the cabs, and for almost every preset I've made since I discovered them, I've used these or a variation. I hope they're attached, but if they're not, 4x12 Rumble 12L 4047 A and D. Factory 2, 913 and 916. There are 2 other combinations of some Rumbles, and then a pair of 2x12 Double Verb's for the Manhattan clean.

These were all made on an Ibanez JS-2450 and "tested" in both humbucker and coil tapped, and bridge and mid. The only one I did with the neck pickup was the Manhattan and is one of the more accurate Manhattan tones I've heard.

Hope these help.
 

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  • DC11's Cleans and More Cleans.syx
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Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for all the replies. This is my first Fractal Audio product and I can tell there is a very good community on here! :)

I tried a York Audio Fender Twin IR and this definitely did make it sound more full and opened it up a bit more to my ears, so Im sure Im on the right track with them.

Its definitely an ''issue'' I have with Cabinet simulators, Ive always found they muddy the sound a lot, like it doesn't sound like my physical amp when I play it, and as far as I know that has a Cabinet in it?

The Amps on their own in FM3 are closer to what Im looking for. The Cabinet makes everything sound much darker etc, but the York Audio IRs definitely give me the best result yet.

What may be a stupid question - if im using 2 IRs in the Cabinet would I need to have 2 XLR Cables connected to play in Stereo?

I currently only have 1 XLR going from FM3 into Audio Interface.

Thanks!
 
tommyq94 said:
Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for all the replies. This is my first Fractal Audio product and I can tell there is a very good community on here! :)

I tried a York Audio Fender Twin IR and this definitely did make it sound more full and opened it up a bit more to my ears, so Im sure Im on the right track with them.

Its definitely an ''issue'' I have with Cabinet simulators, Ive always found they muddy the sound a lot, like it doesn't sound like my physical amp when I play it, and as far as I know that has a Cabinet in it?

The Amps on their own in FM3 are closer to what Im looking for. The Cabinet makes everything sound much darker etc, but the York Audio IRs definitely give me the best result yet.

What may be a stupid question - if im using 2 IRs in the Cabinet would I need to have 2 XLR Cables connected to play in Stereo?

I currently only have 1 XLR going from FM3 into Audio Interface.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
A guitar cabinet is inherently “dark”. Guitar speakers shave off a lot of high end compared to a normal PA speaker, which is a full range, flat response.

When you’re playing without a cab, you’re essentially getting a DI guitar tone, or close to one with just an amp and no cab. That’s a very specific sound that definitely has its uses. But the clip in the video you showed doesn’t sound like a Di guitar. It sounds very much like your standard clean guitar amp and cab.

Ultimately, if you’re happy a with the sound without the cab, then go for it. There are no real rules other than if it sounds good, it is good. But I think it’s important to know how things are traditionally done and why.

As for your question about stereo, yes if you’re using the analog outs into your interface, you’d need to use two xlrs for left and right. If you use your FM3 as the audio interface via usb, you don’t need any other cables.

How are you monitoring yourself? Are you listening back through studio monitors, headphones? And at what volume? What sounds “full” at low volumes can sound a lot brighter at higher volumes. Guitar tones are meant to be loud
 
I have attached a short recording of the clean guitar sound I have, im trying to get it to sound more open and full. I know panning two takes hard left and right is the right way of going about this. It still sounds a bit tinny and thin to me.

Increasing the Bass on the Output EQ definitely helped, as did using the Clean Boost.

Im wondering could it be my Squire Telecaster that is not giving me the full tone im looking for?

I am genuinely willing to pay whatever this costs to get a full tone in Ableton, as I want to get recording an EP and this is where im stuck at!

I was naive enough to think the FM3 would solve all my problems out of the box! :(

My chain is:

  • Squire Telecaster (made in China, one of the better models)
  • into FM3 via 1 XLR cable
  • UMC404HD Audio Interface
  • Ableton Live 12, pan hard L and R
  • Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro Headphones



Any help is REALLY appreciated!
 
tommyq94 said:
I have attached a short recording of the clean guitar sound I have, im trying to get it to sound more open and full. I know panning two takes hard left and right is the right way of going about this. It still sounds a bit tinny and thin to me.

Increasing the Bass on the Output EQ definitely helped, as did using the Clean Boost.

Im wondering could it be my Squire Telecaster that is not giving me the full tone im looking for?

I am genuinely willing to pay whatever this costs to get a full tone in Ableton, as I want to get recording an EP and this is where im stuck at!

I was naive enough to think the FM3 would solve all my problems out of the box! :(

My chain is:

  • Squire Telecaster (made in China, one of the better models)
  • into FM3 via 1 XLR cable
  • UMC404HD Audio Interface
  • Ableton Live 12, pan hard L and R
  • Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro Headphones



Any help is REALLY appreciated!
Click to expand...

We need access to view that file on google drive. Make it so that anyone with the link can view.

If you have your FM3 and things in your preset setup for stereo but only send one XLR, you're going to get half of the stereo image. Likewise, if you have Abeleton setup with a channel expecting stereo but only have one XLR into it, you could be missing some audio.

If you're really new to all this, I think you should forget about running stereo at the moment. It's not necessary for good guitar tones, especially for a simple clean tone like this. Configure your FM3 to "sum l+r" in the settings and set up a mono track in Ableton.

Also, have you tried any of the factory presets? This video demos some of the clean factory presets. You can start with those presets and tweak them as needed. All those presets have cabs and none of them sound "dark".

Lastly, I have those same headphones.They're very popular but I personally don't think they sound very good unless they're driven really loud. But like wise, guitar tones also sound better loud. Make sure you listen LOUD!
 
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Another part of the equation is your pickups….its the mic for your guitar…and the electronics… I’m not going to go down the rabbit hole of quality of the wood…but at bare minimum the pickups, and/or pots and switches/cables are going to be a huge part of the sound quality…I modded a Mexican Tele with Duncun Antiquates…the stock Tex mex pickups were muddy….in comparison. Pickups are the biggest, but low quality cables take down the sound quality. Don’t have to have audiophile cables..just decent quality…

Even with these I find I put in a bass cut for some amps…and I roll the highs down on the guitar tone control on the guitar for the bridge pickup…

Has the guitar been set up because pickup height makes a huge difference…but, if you don’t have a way to monitor the sound objectively it will be hard to diagnose and dial in a great sound…

Everything will contribute, and deficiencies in the any part of the chain will muck things up…and make you over compensate in areas that make things harder down the chain…hope this helps
 
tommyq94 said:
Any help is REALLY appreciated!
Click to expand...
A Tele is a rather classic, twangy instrument. Your tone sounds quite twangy and it even, to my ears, sounds like you're strumming quite near the bridge which tends to exacerbate that brightness. If you are, perhaps moving your strumming location further from the bridge could tame it some. Perhaps try the neck pickup as well?

As others have said, cabinets are basically things that EQ your tone in a variety of ways, and yes, do cut much of the highs. The cab is one of the biggest contributors to overall tone frankly.
 
coldforged said:
A Tele is a rather classic, twangy instrument. Your tone sounds quite twangy and it even, to my ears, sounds like you're strumming quite near the bridge which tends to exacerbate that brightness. If you are, perhaps moving your strumming location further from the bridge could tame it some. Perhaps try the neck pickup as well?

As others have said, cabinets are basically things that EQ your tone in a variety of ways, and yes, do cut much of the highs. The cab is one of the biggest contributors to overall tone frankly.
Click to expand...
I listened to the clip now as well and I concur. The tone you're going for in the original video you posted is definitely a neck pickup thing and is strummed a lot softer than how you're playing.

Also, post your preset so others can see what you're doing in the FM3 and offer better tips.

In the meantime, I think you should really try some of the factory clean presets I mentioned previously. Examine how those blocks are setup to get an idea on how to make your own preset in the future.
 
tommyq94 said:
Hey everyone,

Im having trouble getting a full and rich clean tone as shown in this video -

At the beginning of the video and at 20:00 mins, it just sounds so much more full than what I can achieve (as a beginner).

He explains his guitar rig at 21:42


My tones are a bit 'tinny' and harsh/frizzle sounding. I think a lot of this is due to the Cabinet maybe? It sounds very basic, all im using is a Fender Deluxe Amp and cabinet and move the microphone to the outside via Dynacab.

I genuinely think that the tone WITHOUT any cabinet sounds closer to getting a full sound, why is that? The Cab makes everything sound a bit more flat and condensed.

Can anyone please help me achieve this tone? Im a bit overwhelmed with FM3 Edit. I use Telecaster into UMC404HD into Ableton Live 12.

I am willing to pay anyone for a preset like this also! :)
Click to expand...

The tone is just an AC30 and single coil guitar. Try the preset "CLASS-A 30' and turn the bass down using an EQ because fm3 is very bassy by default.
 
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