Can't decide which way to go for Sterero. Help!! (Q12 vs. Bogner and GT1000FX)

christopherzberlin

christopherzberlin

Inspired
Hi guys, I need some advice here... Any ideas welcome! My current setup is the Axe II in 4CM with a Mesa Lonestar. I am willing to sell the Mesa (after V10 preamp is absolutely identical with tweaking) and want to go stereo. Now. I really dig the Bogner 1x12 cubes with V30's and I am thinking about combining two of those with a GT1000FX.

However I am considering FRFR as well... But! I had Atomic wedges and amps before and I didn't like them on the long run. The punch and amp feel of the Mesa kiled the atomics. So coming from the negative atomic experience I am reluctant to go the Q12 way... But I am really intrigued as I read really good reviews and like the ability to use the Axe for cab sims as well... Argh... I am confused. Two things important for me: I want an "in the room" amp feel and stereo. Flexibility with cabs would be great but not a must. I also have a pair of Event 20/20's for home recording and I don't like the way the Axe sounds like a recorded guitar through them when I jam. It's great for recording/monitoring situations but not for playing... these days I'm mostly a home player but from time to time need an amp on a stage... Thanks for any advice! Cheers Chris
 
yes, don't let your experience with the original atomics put you off trying frfr again. the products available now are in a different league
 
Atomic has a 14 day trial period as does matrix (at least with their amps, check with the cabs)
definitely try one, or a Xitone.
I recently picked up a Matrix GT1000FX1U to go thru a 2X12 cab and had been using the RCF Nx 12SMA (which I loved BTW)
the sound thru the RCF was very clear and each model was very distinct , just what you'd expect, BUT..............
after getting the Matrix and using a real cab again .......the feel is definitely different.
It's much easier to play thru a power amp/cab the response and bounce back from the amp/cab is much more than thru the RCF.
Plus FRFR guys,you're not going to want to hear this,but we get used to how FRFR sounds.
I had a good friend of mine over that is an incredible guitarist that has a ton of great vintage gear that i jam with
all the time (He is the friend that I brought my rig over to his house so I could play it thru the 2 4X12 BW cabs he has from the late 70's
and he lent me the Orange cab I had been using. He came by to check out how I was doing and we fired up the rig.
The Orange cab sounded good but still needed some more tweaking (since then GuitarMan85(Pete) from this forum has come by and I have this worked out now
Can' thank you enough Pete :) )
but when I fired up the RCF (thinking it would blow him away) he thought it sounded.......well like a monitor.
he did not like it ....at all.
I had to take a step back because I loved the way it sounded, but it had occurred to me right then,that maybe I had just gotten so used to
how it sounds that I thought "this is how it's supposed to sound?" had I convinced myself that this thing sounded great?
I'm not gigging right now and may never really gig again, so I sold the RCF, my Rokit 8's are pretty loud and I now run the Rokits thru output1
and the Matrix/cab thru output 2 and blend them if I feel the need for that "recorded sound"
I am on the wait list for the Atomic CLR and will give it a try and I will give the Xitone a go as well (when the Atomic gets here I want to do a comparison).
I totally understand the argument for FRFR if I was gigging I would most likely go that route for simplicity sake and knowing how it sounds FOH
blah blah blah....all of the legit reasons to go FRFR. I do get it and could work with it.
But.... there really is a big difference in feel between a real cab and an FRFR cab (at least with all of the ones I've tried so far)
It may be the RCF amp? the Matrix has pleasantly surprised me.
I like that I can run the Rokits and get a great sound for late night quiet practicing and obviously recording etc, but now that I have a real cab again
I'm really liking it. Sure the high gain amps sound a lot more similar thru the amp->cab than they do FRFR but the feel....well.
If I had the cash and a room that was soundproofed away from the rest of my house I would most likely run a 4X12 from output 2 and 2 FRFR cabs out of output 1
and get the complete experience LOL!
My wife is not going to go for that though :(
so after all of this my suggestion is try one, don't sell anything until you can compare them side by side.
If you're not gigging you may be able to make due with a good set of monitors and you current rig running out in stereo.
 
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thanks for your comments! I think I tend to agree with kmanick... a real cab feels different... And I have to say, yes I played the old atomics and wanted to believe they sound great. Until I had the Mesa in the room again...

So maybe the answer I am looking for by some Q12 owners is: YES, with a Q12 you have exactly that. An in the room amp and cab feel and not the best monitor in the world. I would love to be able to reproduce the "real" amp and cab feel with the countless options the axe offers. Have a "real" XTC with a 4x12 and a "real" Fender Twin in two different presets and not the monitor versions... Do you FRFR guys have that in your equipment?

If not I think for what I am looking for I might be better off with 2 real cabs and a Matrix 1000....
 
I think the Q12 does that. Its very guitar-like, to the point where I miss the studio/monitor type of polished tone.. If you are in Canada, i'm looking to sell it
 
This thread is pushing "are we using back or front gear" over the cliff. The question is home, small club's or big venues! Leaving behind guitar-cab miking or not! Using wedges or in-ear! The Axe is NOT some simple G-System but a ingenious tool invented for getting rid of your ordinary guitar-cab and making life lot's of easier on stage.
 
christopherzberlin said:
hi, thanks but I'm based in Germany. how long did you play your Q12 and what are you aiming to buy instead? CLR's?
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only about 10 hours, im gonna play it for another week just to be sure, but I was never a tube amp guy and I actually want that polished guitar tone like you hear through studio monitors.. Also, with the II it just makes any speaker sound fantastic, I dont feel like having a $1000 speaker around.. Right now I am enjoying my cheap 90s EV SX300 enough that Im thinking of going with an EV ZXA1 purely for its small size and saving $600 from the Q12.
 
I'm playing mostly home and in small club's. For recording and occasional bigger gigs I'm using the Axe direct. I know what it's capable of and I know what I am looking for. A stereo solution for pushing air and giving an in the room amp feel for home / rehearasal room and small clubs. So my question was more going into what sonic experience do the Q12's provide? Is it a good monitor or does it provide real amp+cab feel?
 
christopherzberlin said:
...Two things important for me: I want an "in the room" amp feel and stereo. Flexibility with cabs would be great but not a must. I also have a pair of Event 20/20's for home recording and I don't like the way the Axe sounds like a recorded guitar through them when I jam. It's great for recording/monitoring situations but not for playing...
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Based upon these statements, I would suggest that you go with the Matrix GT1000FX and the Bogner 1x12s. No FRFR is ever going to sound like "amp in the room". Cliff has even stated this fact. The great thing about going with a separate solid state power amp like the Matrix is that you can run real guitar cabs and have "amp in the room" sound and feel. AND... if you get the itch to try out FRFR, you can use any of the high quality passive FRFR monitors from XiTone, Matrix, or Atomic with the Matrix power amp. Best of both worlds, IMO.

So, I respectfully disagree with others in this thread about the Q12 giving that "amp in the room" sound and feel. Not dogging the Q12... just saying that no FRFR will give you that sound and feel. Remember that FRFR is going to sound like a mic'd guitar cab. They're just different animals.
 
pdup said:
...The Axe is NOT some simple G-System but a ingenious tool invented for getting rid of your ordinary guitar-cab and making life lot's of easier on stage.
Click to expand...

Sorry, gotta disagree with you here. The Axe=Fx was not invented to "get rid of your ordinary guitar-cab". Quite the contrary IMO. The great thing about the Axe-Fx is it's flexibility in different situations. If you want true "amp in the room" sound and feel, the Axe-Fx combined with a good solid state power amp and real guitar cabinets is awesome. And with v10 firmware, it's like having over 100 amp heads to run thru your favorite guitar cabs. It also is a great studio tool for recording, eliminating the need for mic'ing cabinets, and having many cabinets and mics immediately at your disposal for tone shaping. Not even to mention all of the top notch effects available. And, the Axe-Fx is also great for the situation you described above, for the gigging musician who wants to lighten his load by using on stage FRFR monitoring, and going direct to FOH.

The flexibility of the Axe-Fx to be fantastic in all of these situations is IMO what sets it apart from anything else out there.
 
Hey Chris,

how about checking out the Q12 for yourself instead of guessing from what others say? I got myself a q12a just a few days ago. I only had little time to dig in deeply but I did some experimenting at home and at rehearsals. For me it worked out perfectly! If you are interested: I live in Berlin too - send me a PM and we could arrange a meeting, I bring my stuff and you may check out the q12 in your context. We even could do some jamming if you like to.

Cheers
Snoop
 
Thomas-Hawk said:
Sorry, gotta disagree with you here. The Axe=Fx was not invented to "get rid of your ordinary guitar-cab". Quite the contrary IMO. The great thing about the Axe-Fx is it's flexibility in different situations. If you want true "amp in the room" sound and feel, the Axe-Fx combined with a good solid state power amp and real guitar cabinets is awesome. And with v10 firmware, it's like having over 100 amp heads to run thru your favorite guitar cabs. It also is a great studio tool for recording, eliminating the need for mic'ing cabinets, and having many cabinets and mics immediately at your disposal for tone shaping. Not even to mention all of the top notch effects available. And, the Axe-Fx is also great for the situation you described above, for the gigging musician who wants to lighten his load by using on stage FRFR monitoring, and going direct to FOH.

The flexibility of the Axe-Fx to be fantastic in all of these situations is IMO what sets it apart from anything else out there.
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And don't forget 4CM in that flexibility equation - tried mine with my Two Rock CRS, which is a great amp, but this thing took it to a whole other level! I tried this with a G-System for a while and the antics I had to go through to eliminate the hum was ridiculous - I even had to add a Shur MiniMix to get it to work. With the Axe II I just connected the cables went to the 4CM preset, used Axe Edit to drop in some effects, programmed the MFC and my expression pedals and I was in tone heaven!!
 
Thomas-Hawk said:
So, I respectfully disagree with others in this thread about the Q12 giving that "amp in the room" sound and feel. Not dogging the Q12... just saying that no FRFR will give you that sound and feel. Remember that FRFR is going to sound like a mic'd guitar cab. They're just different animals.
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I agree with you, no FRFR solution (at least the ones I have tried) will give you a traditional "in room" cab/amp experience .... Not going to happen.

That being said, based on the solutions I have tried, I think the Matrix GT1000FX with the Q12 is about as close as I have gotten to the tone/feel of a traditional rig (right out of the box). The combination of FW10 with the Matrix amp and cab is the perfect solution for my gigging needs and made my transition to the AXE from vintage tube and boutique amps (while keeping a busy gig schedule) seamless.

I think the Matrix amp has a lot to do with it.

I am really looking forward to trying their new 2x12 traditional cabinet.
 
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cander328 said:
And don't forget 4CM in that flexibility equation...
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Oops! :eek:ops Thanks, I totally forgot about the 4CM! Yep... another perfect example of the flexibility of the Axe-Fx, and how great it works in that scenario! Thanks cander328!

snoop said:
Hey Chris,

how about checking out the Q12 for yourself instead of guessing from what others say?
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Chris, snoop is absolutely right. The only way to tell for sure if a solution is going to work for you or not is to try it out for yourself. I use the opinions given by others here as a way to narrow down gear choices, then try to check them out for myself, which unfortunately can be difficult to do sometimes.
 
Chris, I tried to send you a PM, but your Inbox seems to be full. You have to delete stuff in order to be able to receive new mail...
 
hey snoop, emptied my mailbox now. sorry you couldn't get through! However I have made a decision and pulled the trigger on two Bogner 1x12 V30 cabs and the matrix. It sounds so unbelievably awesome that it's hard to describe. This is 110% what I wanted. V10 in stereo with GREAT cabs is pure Amp in the room feel AND a million tonal choices. I simply love the way the Bogner cabs sound so I don't miss tweaking presets with IR's. In fact, it makes my life easier and me a happier player. I thought 4CM with a combo was great for a while but this new setup puts everything I ever used before in the shadow... Absolutely AWSOME!

Cheers guys and thanks for all advices!
 
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