Can you hear a difference?

[PacoCasanovasOld]

We all should play a little more guitar and enjoy the toys we have today......I remember the times when I was 18yrs old and dreamed of a digital reverb effect processor....which was too expensive at the time....

I (only) had an analog spring reverb unit from Roland (RV800 or so) and a Hughes & Kettner Tubeman Mk1 (from 1992). https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100561953/mondnacht.mp3

....but I had plenty of ideas! I wish I could go back.....it was a great time! Less was more, Internet wasn't affordable, same goes for digital equipment in general....

Cheers
Paco

 

[Solarfire]

Another exausting "The glas is half empty thread!"

 

[symphx]

You don't get credit for asking a question. You get it by answering it.

While not to get all philosophical onyou but I believe there is merit in both! A. If no one asks questions we devolve or at best stagnate. B. the answer has to be a a good one not just hey f.u. It should provide a some benefit to the greater good without being tyrannical to the minority

In this case as judge jury and executioner IMHO of course I deem we have both. Now in terms of how we got here that I will leave to others with longer than the 10 foot pole I currently possess!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[barhrecords]

There is no need for this forum to be an adversarial place. The goal is to make music and enjoy that music. The Axe-Fx II is an amazing device capable of almost limitless sounds and possibilities. The world is an increasingly depressing place but yet we are brought together here through the common bond of music. Let's rejoice in that and make some great music and hopefully distract ourselves from the misery that surrounds us.

^^^This

It's the music!!!!!

 

[VeryBadMan]

Thanks bro I'll check em out. Ps I keep seeing/thinking triple sec. When u write triplerec!

Triple sec , bwahhhhaa
when my friend came over to jam I told him I had done a Recto test . He said " I hope everythings ok , they didnt find anything ?"
He thought I said Rectal test and had a visit with DR Jellyfinger .
I had to explain I was comparing my Mesa Rectifier with the axe fx . I repeated the " test " and he said the tone was super close the big difference being the speakers 4X12 cab vs EZ ZLX He said the axe rig had a tighter bass.
I shall no longer say " Recto test " or " Triple Rec " as these terms tend to be missunderstood haha's .

 

[ML SOUND LAB]

All I wanted was an answer and I'm glad I got it. Thanks Cliff.

 

[guitartripp]

Cliff, I feel Clark's pain. There are simply people on here that are major jerks. My question is this: Why does Clark get slammed for voicing his opinion, while everyone else can state their claim...until they are countered, and then they simply go into defense mode and then are backed by all the other 'jerks'. (Btw, I'm not saying that everyone is a jerk on here, actually I find most to be very nice and helpful...but there are a few on here!) My belief is that Clark made a valid claim regarding the particular amp he was using vs the tone matching. He provided proof of the differences, and then everyone started slamming him. What happens when YOU get slammed for something? Do you not get offended and take a course of action that can sometimes have an adverse effect? I've done it. I've had half the forum pissed at me for telling someone he doesn't play like Eric Johnson. I could care a less if he does or does not, I got pissed because he was making a video of playing like Eric Johnson. So, my point is that I KNOW there are people on here that are probably just looking for a fight, and they know the right buttons to push. You saw the Chef leave because people were slamming him over a simple request he made. I wasn't even able to read the parts that were deleted, but I would think that Clark got downright pissed off, and he had every right to be.

I used to visit the forum daily, but have limited my presence because I'm sick of all the fake people on here. You say you want it to be a nice environment, but it's not. I once posted that it sounded like a craigslist forum...and it does! You're last message to Clark was NOT in the best interest of Customer Service. I personally just dropped nearly $900 of my hard earned money, following with another $2700+ for the XL in a few weeks (hopefully), and would hope that it's going to a GREAT company. I work Customer Service every day, in one aspect or another, and I would never think of stating anything remotely close to what you wrote to Clark. I feel like I'm being offended, and if I feel that way, then I can only imagine what he must be feeling.

I love your products, they work great (just wish they were made completely in the USA) and I LOVE your R&D that keeps giving us an improved product. I think we all know that the Axe products are not 100% to the original amps/effects, and we all should know that no two amps are alike, BUT...it's also great to see where it's lacking so that it can be improved upon. I think Clark's testing/investigation is PRICELESS to your R&D, as it gives a totally different perspective.

I hope you guys work it out. I personally enjoy the forums for the help...not for the spite/anger/hostility/animosity that seems to plague them so frequently.

 

[ztevie]

It's weird how internet forum discussions so easily turn ugly. If this would take place in a real location with all these people here discussing in real life it would probably be interesting and friendly.
But it's like this on every forum everywhere, it's not like this place is worse than elsewhere. Scientists should do research on this matter... Bet it would be interesting!

 

[Warrior]

.........I personally enjoy the forums for the help...not for the spite/anger/hostility/animosity that seems to plague them so frequently.

Frequently? As in .0001% of the posts?

I would say posts that display "spite/anger/hostility/animosity" are the exception and certainly not common enough to be of any concern. In fact, I just spent far too much time voicing my opinion on the subject. (albeit, an unsolicited opinion )

 

[henryrobinett]

It wasn't that Clark Kent had an opinion. It's the manner in which he voiced it and refused to actually listen to other opinions or voices. That's when animosity starts. Everyone wants to be heard and understood. When you opinion-ate but don't really listen-ate or alter most things said to fit into an argument the boat begins to rock.

Plus these kinds of arguments are pointless. It's subjective opinion.

"I think this sounds better!"

"No I think this sound better!"

"No! You're wrong!"

No! YOU'RE wrong!!"

Everyone is right. It's subjective. It sounds right or wrong to THEM. There isn't a wrong until some changes their mind. And mind changing is probably not going to happen when heels dig in the ground because people have opinions. They've invested in having opinions. We've all bought the Axe Fx and most of us love it.

 

[solo-act]

Wow, Cliff amazing maturity and grace shown there. You did not even need to answer all this,....well done!

There's a lot of axe-fx users out there who perform for a living. A tiny percentage of them, self included, lurk, post, try to help and occasionally get fed up with forum members who just need to gig with the axe-fx vs. obsessing over "shortcomings" real or not.

Admittedly, I pissed Cliff off during the lead up to the axe-fxII release when I was frustrated about a lack of communication. He's ignored me ever since, including years-long feature requests that even some name-players have asked for. I can live with that, and I admire Cliff's efforts to help the newbies.

But what I don't understand is why Cliff gives so much attention to the Clarky's of the board and their subjective opinions of the modeling, while his interaction with full-time performers seems sparse at best. Maybe I'm wrong, but his post-history suggests that, and it seems counter-intuitive to Fractal's mental and market health (giving the wrong people attention rarely works out), especially given how much gigging users expose the product to the public in the real world. IMO, YMMV, etc.

 

[steverosburg]

Cliff, I feel Clark's pain. There are simply people on here that are major jerks. My question is this: Why does Clark get slammed for voicing his opinion, while everyone else can state their claim...until they are countered, and then they simply go into defense mode and then are backed by all the other 'jerks'. (Btw, I'm not saying that everyone is a jerk on here, actually I find most to be very nice and helpful...but there are a few on here!) My belief is that Clark made a valid claim regarding the particular amp he was using vs the tone matching. He provided proof of the differences, and then everyone started slamming him. What happens when YOU get slammed for something? Do you not get offended and take a course of action that can sometimes have an adverse effect? I've done it. I've had half the forum pissed at me for telling someone he doesn't play like Eric Johnson. I could care a less if he does or does not, I got pissed because he was making a video of playing like Eric Johnson. So, my point is that I KNOW there are people on here that are probably just looking for a fight, and they know the right buttons to push. You saw the Chef leave because people were slamming him over a simple request he made. I wasn't even able to read the parts that were deleted, but I would think that Clark got downright pissed off, and he had every right to be.

I used to visit the forum daily, but have limited my presence because I'm sick of all the fake people on here. You say you want it to be a nice environment, but it's not. I once posted that it sounded like a craigslist forum...and it does! You're last message to Clark was NOT in the best interest of Customer Service. I personally just dropped nearly $900 of my hard earned money, following with another $2700+ for the XL in a few weeks (hopefully), and would hope that it's going to a GREAT company. I work Customer Service every day, in one aspect or another, and I would never think of stating anything remotely close to what you wrote to Clark. I feel like I'm being offended, and if I feel that way, then I can only imagine what he must be feeling.

I love your products, they work great (just wish they were made completely in the USA) and I LOVE your R&D that keeps giving us an improved product. I think we all know that the Axe products are not 100% to the original amps/effects, and we all should know that no two amps are alike, BUT...it's also great to see where it's lacking so that it can be improved upon. I think Clark's testing/investigation is PRICELESS to your R&D, as it gives a totally different perspective.

I hope you guys work it out. I personally enjoy the forums for the help...not for the spite/anger/hostility/animosity that seems to plague them so frequently.

While I can appreciate your perspective to a point and am not trying to start anything here, I disagree with what appears to be your perspective that Cliff should just grin and bear whatever people want to say because he's the face of Fractal Audio. He's proven over and over again that Fractal is run very differently than the way most companies treat customers on their forums, and I personally find it refreshing. I would argue that most big companies either ignore their customers or give polite responses but couldn't care less and certainly not strive to improve their product the way Cliff does, and tiny ones often pander to make sure they don't hurt their business. I've heard over and over again that if anybody says anything they get slammed, and all they're trying to do is help! It's rarely that cut and dried.

Clark is very vocal in his opinion, and so it shouldn't come as a big surprise if he gets both flack and support for it; being outspoken generally tends to polarize people one way or the other (usually in accordance with whether others tend to agree with you or not). As far as jerks on the forum go, you have to assume that there are going to be jerks on any forum and just learn how to ignore them, but overall I've found that most knowledgable people on this forum are very helpful, you just need to be polite and respectful, like you were face to face.

I personally appreciate the honest response from Cliff, it's clear he's passionate about his product and takes pride in his work. Most company owners wouldn't even spend the time to personally connect with their customers at all.

 

[symphx]

Cliff, I feel Clark's pain. There are simply people on here that are major jerks. My question is this: Why does Clark get slammed for voicing his opinion, while everyone else can state their claim...until they are countered, and then they simply go into defense mode and then are backed by all the other 'jerks'. (Btw, I'm not saying that everyone is a jerk on here, actually I find most to be very nice and helpful...but there are a few on here!) My belief is that Clark made a valid claim regarding the particular amp he was using vs the tone matching. He provided proof of the differences, and then everyone started slamming him. What happens when YOU get slammed for something? Do you not get offended and take a course of action that can sometimes have an adverse effect? I've done it. I've had half the forum pissed at me for telling someone he doesn't play like Eric Johnson. I could care a less if he does or does not, I got pissed because he was making a video of playing like Eric Johnson. So, my point is that I KNOW there are people on here that are probably just looking for a fight, and they know the right buttons to push. You saw the Chef leave because people were slamming him over a simple request he made. I wasn't even able to read the parts that were deleted, but I would think that Clark got downright pissed off, and he had every right to be.

I used to visit the forum daily, but have limited my presence because I'm sick of all the fake people on here. You say you want it to be a nice environment, but it's not. I once posted that it sounded like a craigslist forum...and it does! You're last message to Clark was NOT in the best interest of Customer Service. I personally just dropped nearly $900 of my hard earned money, following with another $2700+ for the XL in a few weeks (hopefully), and would hope that it's going to a GREAT company. I work Customer Service every day, in one aspect or another, and I would never think of stating anything remotely close to what you wrote to Clark. I feel like I'm being offended, and if I feel that way, then I can only imagine what he must be feeling.

I love your products, they work great (just wish they were made completely in the USA) and I LOVE your R&D that keeps giving us an improved product. I think we all know that the Axe products are not 100% to the original amps/effects, and we all should know that no two amps are alike, BUT...it's also great to see where it's lacking so that it can be improved upon. I think Clark's testing/investigation is PRICELESS to your R&D, as it gives a totally different perspective.

I hope you guys work it out. I personally enjoy the forums for the help...not for the spite/anger/hostility/animosity that seems to plague them so frequently.

Wow I didn't get any of the vibe u got from cliffs statement! I think u and I both missed some of the more cantankerous remarks Clark made due to the thread deletion as I too have generally defended him.

However cliffs response seemed like a very calm peace offering. In fact it was the longest most thoughtful least self righteous post I've ever seen him write !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Narzugon]

You say you want it to be a nice environment, but it's not. I once posted that it sounded like a craigslist forum...and it does! You're last message to Clark was NOT in the best interest of Customer Service. I personally just dropped nearly $900 of my hard earned money, following with another $2700+ for the XL in a few weeks (hopefully), and would hope that it's going to a GREAT company. I work Customer Service every day, in one aspect or another, and I would never think of stating anything remotely close to what you wrote to Clark. I feel like I'm being offended, and if I feel that way, then I can only imagine what he must be feeling.

I honestly did not see anything remotely wrong with Cliff's reply. Nothing even remotely rude.

I've had half the forum pissed at me for telling someone he doesn't play like Eric Johnson. I could care a less if he does or does not, I got pissed because he was making a video of playing like Eric Johnson.

If you didn't see your error there you're not going to see it here either.

 

[pima1234]

Hey, even The Gear Page has calmed down a little lately.

The FF has just hit some turbulence. It will pass.

The internet is a great place for miscommunication.

 

[yek]

(....)

Putting out the fire with gasoline...

 

[AlbertA]

...And just so you know you're talking to one of the most highly educated people on the forum.

I can't tell if you honestly believe that or it's subtle sarcasm...

 

[Valhallir]

It's really very sad how things turn out here. After more than 3200 posts from Clark, lots of free IRs, patches, sound files, countless helpful information to newbies and advanced users, he's getting a huge "FUCK YOU" from people who feel offended by his way to communicate. Sometimes you have to shout out loud to get heard, and this is what he did sometimes.

Although I don't share his opinion sometimes, there are better ways than calling him a gay porn actor or similar....and deleting his signature is really strange and annoying at the same time. I just don't get it.

And the funny thing sometimes is, if people like Clark Kent say: "There is something wrong.... this is not "real"..." he get's the answer by Cliff: "You are wrong, I tested it with one of my 50.000 Dollar Super-duper-Amps, and I say you are wrong"
And one firmware later something has changed, has been improved, and Cliff tells "it's much more realistic now. The real thing....." (Doesn't this imply that there was something "missing" before the new firmware release?"

The difference between Cliff and Clark, when it comes to the way how they "communicate", is quite small, but Clark wanted to help people , and Cliff has to do it, because it's part of his business....and the competition is NOT sleeping...
In this times, the ONLY way to stay in this business, is extended customer service and the iron will to improve the product, which also means to listen to the users.
This is something, that many big companies did NOT in the past, and they paid the price.....

I really love, what I can do with my axe. But it is a tool. A product. There is always room for improvement.

 

[Mark's Tone]

guitartrip doesn't even own an Axfx...:roll

 

[tlainhart]

The goal is to make music and enjoy that music. The Axe-Fx II is an amazing device capable of almost limitless sounds and possibilities. The world is an increasingly depressing place but yet we are brought together here through the common bond of music. Let's rejoice in that and make some great music and hopefully distract ourselves from the misery that surrounds us.

Loved this response. Thanks for posting it.