Can the vets lessen the learning curve for noobs?

S

sundancer50

Member
I love my Axe FX 3 and the tones it came with. Its kept me occupied for weeks. I want to progress my knowledge though and to do so I have mimic'ed my approach in the real physical world for the last 30 years which was whenever I get a new pedal or amp I unplug everything else and just play with the new pedal for a few hours - basically twiddle every knob to see what happens and get some sounds I like. If I like the pedal enough hard choices would be made as to what pedal gets removed from my pedalboard to make way for the new gadget. And then I would figure out where to put it in the chain and spend a day unplugging and reconnecting everything, velcro. connecters etc.

This approach doesn't work when you in one day get a few hundred amps, cabs and pedals thrown at you, Its overwhelming and can get a little frustrating to be honest. I just want to play guitar and get sweet sounds and not earn a recording engineer degree (although if I had time I would love too).

My question is this. For you guys who have been twiddling with the FX2 for years and now the 3, do you have a sequence or knowledge blocks you would follow to build up your AX knowledge in a fun way thats not overwhelming.

When we learnt to play guitar we started with chords, then scales, the basics and built on that. Does anyone have a reference guide or something that builds up in blocks of knowledge. I have used the manual, wiki etc. buts its not very sequential. I am waiting for Coopers video tutorial which might be the resource I am looking for.
 
just use what you're already familiar with. you don't need to adjust advanced things that you don't understand. it's really that simple. for specific things you want to do, ask in the forum. but you definitely don't need to understand everything before using the Axe-Fx.
 
sundancer50 said:
This approach doesn't work when you in one day get a few hundred amps, cabs and pedals thrown at you, Its overwhelming and can get a little frustrating to be honest. I just want to play guitar and get sweet sounds and not earn a recording engineer degree (although if I had time I would love too).
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It works this way for me. I think of the sounds I want to emulate, then I do a little interweb research on what old school gear makes those sounds. Then build it in the Axe-FX. Now I know what amps and effects make those sounds.
 
Short answer: No.

Simple tones are fairly easy. Leave advanced features alone for now and stick with TMB. Cabs are probably the hardest learning curve...but start with one 'close', and add a few more that get it to where your ear hears it (do NOT be afraid to be radical and put a 1x6 speaker in there in the mix...it just might be great.) Good advice to do the interwebz search on what plays well with the amp that you're using.

Start small with the basics, but in the end, there is no substitute for learning the unit, and what works FOR YOU. It will not be the same as everyone else. Once you embrace that and find what works for you, then you're golden.

R
 
When I was still playing a zenTera, I worked through Dave Hunter's Guitar Amp Handbook, so I would have a broader understanding of tube amps. That book is just broad enough to cover most of the amp families that exist, and you learn some history as well which can be fun. Then, you play around with just the classics in each family and get a feel for the kind of tone that each one produces and how to dial it in with your favorite cab or one that Yek's guide suggests. Once you mastered those or discarded them, then you broaden out into the rest of the models of which a large part of them are just updates of the classics. The lessons that you've learned apply to them as well for the most part.

You can do the same for pedals and effects, but Dave Hunter's book on those isn't nearly as good.
 
Thankyou Chris,




sundancer50 said:
I love my Axe FX 3 and the tones it came with. Its kept me occupied for weeks. I want to progress my knowledge though and to do so I have mimic'ed my approach in the real physical world for the last 30 years which was whenever I get a new pedal or amp I unplug everything else and just play with the new pedal for a few hours - basically twiddle every knob to see what happens and get some sounds I like. If I like the pedal enough hard choices would be made as to what pedal gets removed from my pedalboard to make way for the new gadget. And then I would figure out where to put it in the chain and spend a day unplugging and reconnecting everything, velcro. connecters etc.

This approach doesn't work when you in one day get a few hundred amps, cabs and pedals thrown at you, Its overwhelming and can get a little frustrating to be honest. I just want to play guitar and get sweet sounds and not earn a recording engineer degree (although if I had time I would love too).

My question is this. For you guys who have been twiddling with the FX2 for years and now the 3, do you have a sequence or knowledge blocks you would follow to build up your AX knowledge in a fun way thats not overwhelming.

When we learnt to play guitar we started with chords, then scales, the basics and built on that. Does anyone have a reference guide or something that builds up in blocks of knowledge. I have used the manual, wiki etc. buts its not very sequential. I am waiting for Coopers video tutorial which might be the resource I am looking for.
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sundancer50 said:
This approach doesn't work when you in one day get a few hundred amps, cabs and pedals thrown at you,
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Why cant you use this same approach? Create a preset with a single amp and cab and nothing else. Lets say you choose a brit800 and a 4x12 cab IR with greenbacks. Play around with that like you would a real amp and cab. Once you get accustomed to that amp try swapping it out for a Boogie or Fender. Also try swapping cabs. After this, you can add a single drive pedal and play around with it just like you would a real drive pedal. Just keep it simple and add as your understanding increases.
 
What I’ve read on the forum before, and makes much sense to me, is treat each amp model as if you just bought that amp. You need to research what type of speakers to use, what artists that use the amp use for speakers and settings, what iconic tones the amp is known for. Is a drive block needed to get the sound you are chasing? Read Yeks amp guide as a starting point. Then there are a few advanced parameters that need to be addressed since this is a virtual model. Spkr compression, amp block spkr low res, and cab hi and low cuts are the big ones.
 
Recreate your favorite sounds from your pedal/amp setup. I do this for my main sounds then add other blocks one at a time and not only experiment with the block settings but routing also. I may revisit this same block several times before I get something I like. Take time and realize you don’t need to use everything :) especially all at once
 
It helps too to look at the grid like your pedalboard, start the input, next a wah or volume pedal, drives, modulation, amp, cab, delays, verbs etc. I get a basic layout the way I like it, and then just copy that as a template, and swap out the amp and cabs as needed. If the patch requires something different effect wise from the standard stuff I use then I dive into that. IMHO YMMV
 
In short, to paraphrase others responses .. NO short cuts.
MY advise - having been around here since 2008, is 2-part.

#1 - follow the old KISS principle.
The old adage that says "IF you don't know what it does, dont f**k with it" also applies.
STAY AWAY from the advanced setting in ALL blocks - amp, cab and effects - until you know what those parameters do. Quite a few make no obvious audible difference.
No need to mess with them. You can get GREAT tone by sticking to the basics tabs.

#2 - if you WANT to learn, use the wiki and Yek massive knowledge base, and dig into/clone some of the factory presets.
 
bdrepko said:
Why cant you use this same approach? Create a preset with a single amp and cab and nothing else. Lets say you choose a brit800 and a 4x12 cab IR with greenbacks. Play around with that like you would a real amp and cab. Once you get accustomed to that amp try swapping it out for a Boogie or Fender. Also try swapping cabs. After this, you can add a single drive pedal and play around with it just like you would a real drive pedal. Just keep it simple and add as your understanding increases.
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This is a great approach. I'm trying to make a series of videos that talk through my approach of building presets, starting with the most simple preset and building upon them. I'm a bass player, but all the concepts transfer over.


In this video I build a very quick amp+cab chain and walkthrough my workflow.



Working from the first simple preset, I add a second amp flow with a guitar amp/cab for more interesting drive tones.
 
I'm a noob to the Axe but not to modeling - the big thing is to realize that there's really not an overwhelming amount of stuff. For instance, sure, there's 260+ amps - but you don't ever have to use more than one or two - whichever are your favorites in the real world. I like the Mesa Mark IV so all my presets are built around the clean and rhythm ch.2 models.

Cabs? IRs? Now that's probably the most difficult aspect of this unit. The Helix, for instance, has the "Amp & Cab" block which pairs the most appropriate (or historically common) cab (IR) with the amp you choose. Of course you can change it, but it's nice that you get a starting point. The Axe, however, sets you loose to choose whatever you want. It can be seriously overwhelming - especially since you can pick 4 cabs per channel per block per scene... so that's roughly one bajillion cab combos. I'm still lost in IR land; to me they all sound like slightly different EQ curves - none dramatically better than any others, IMO.

Effects are easy too, except my only complaint that they all use the same framework for editing - that is, the same controls. So that takes some getting used to since, while the framework is the same, the behaviors are not the same for each model. It's both brilliant and at times frustrating lol!

Regardless, you're in for a treat. Just play through the presets to start and make changes from there. This unit has REALLY good factory presets.
 
sundancer50 said:
This approach doesn't work when you in one day get a few hundred amps, cabs and pedals thrown at you, Its overwhelming and can get a little frustrating to be honest. I just want to play guitar and get sweet sounds and not earn a recording engineer degree (although if I had time I would love too).
Click to expand...

That's how I've approached it since day 1. Treat the blocks as you would their real world counterparts. If you've been playing 30+ years you probably have your fav "go-to" amp and pedal board setup in mind. Start with that. Put an amp and cab block down on an empty grid, tweak the basic amp settings (as you would a real one). Try different cabs if needed. Then start adding your fx blocks. For me the goal here was to recreate a virtual setup of what I was use to and could use and enjoy now. Once that is done, I'd go exploring, tinkering or building what I thought would be my dream rig.

Also another piece of advice. When you buy a new amp, pedal or any other gear, you probably don't break out the soldering iron, open it up and start changing stuff. Generally speaking, this is how you should approach Advanced Menus. Don't even worry about them unless you really want to dig in.
 
Thanks all. Fantastic advice. I think the biggest thing I took away was to keep it simple, have some focus on what sound you are looking for and put some research in. So today I focussed on getting Pete Townsend's tone from Live at Leeds and 20 minutes later I had a Hiwatt DR103 all knobs up a with a touch of reverb and bang - there it was - Won't get fooled again!

Arm is killing me, too much windmilling!!
 
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