Can the Axe-fx handle REAL surf reverb?!

:shock: I'm no surf guy, but that's what I call service!

Hey Cliff, now go for what I really need:
Talent boost and autoplay mode ... :lol: :mrgreen:

Sorry for OT ... :oops:

Micha
 
Im not sure id used the boing reverb, but you never know. With it in combination with other effects that the axe fx is capable of doing you might find some sweet new sounds.
 
FractalAudio said:
This is what the Vintage Reverb sounds like "deboinged": http://www.fractalaudio.com/temp/boingy.mp3

That's using two equal length springs instead of six unequal ones. Excuse the sloppy playing.
Click to expand...

Cliff, I'll post a clip later, probably tomorrow, of my 63 Reverb tank going into the Axe-Fx, on the default values Blackface amp. You'll be able to compare the sound I get from your own clip.
 
FractalAudio said:
This is what the Vintage Reverb sounds like "deboinged": http://www.fractalaudio.com/temp/boingy.mp3

That's using two equal length springs instead of six unequal ones. Excuse the sloppy playing.
Click to expand...


Excellent clip (and great choice for a tune! :D), although I much prefer the original 6-digital-spring version, which reminds me of a Victoria Reverberato and includes just enough "boinginess".

Of course, I have no objection to an option for extra boinginess in addition to the original version.
 
What I did was add a parameter to let you vary the number of springs: 2, 4 or 6. I also added a tone control just for the spring algorithm. The new firmware will change the defaults on the spring models: Small Vintage will be two springs, Med Vintage will be four and Large will be six.
 
FractalAudio said:
What I did was add a parameter to let you vary the number of springs: 2, 4 or 6. I also added a tone control just for the spring algorithm. The new firmware will change the defaults on the spring models: Small Vintage will be two springs, Med Vintage will be four and Large will be six.
Click to expand...
:D Talk about service!! We are not worthy!! Thanks!!!!
 
Amplitube's boing sounds terrible. The tail is completely metallic. The new small vintage has way more boing than I'd ever use, but the tail sounds great compared to Amplitube. Now all we need is an accelerometer in the Axe-FX, so when we give it a bump.....
 
stevorc321 said:
FractalAudio said:
What I did was add a parameter to let you vary the number of springs: 2, 4 or 6. I also added a tone control just for the spring algorithm. The new firmware will change the defaults on the spring models: Small Vintage will be two springs, Med Vintage will be four and Large will be six.
Click to expand...
:D Talk about service!! We are not worthy!! Thanks!!!!
Click to expand...
+1
This is too cool. :cool:
 
Re: Boing-be-gone :eek:)

stevorc321 said:
Radley said:
I believe Cliff was right on the money with the de-boing-ing. The 'boing' sounds were the result of less than ideal playing conditions - they were never thought of as a good sound or 'feature', (except for maybe Halloween) :shock:
Click to expand...
Sure - if you are after a smooth, lush verb - but in surf and some of the raw, west coast blues etc that ugliness is part of the sound. It's part of the surf guitar culture. I'm mean guys intentionally kick the crap out of their tanks - they are going for a pretty over the top sort of sound - but vintage all the way!!
Click to expand...

Stevorc321,

I understand, but there is the all-important element of user 'timing' that is missing when it's 'pre-programmed' - it seems to me that the 'boing' usually comes at the wrong time! :( If there is a way to manually trigger this, it becomes a lot more useful & musical, no?
 
The boing actually happens when you play a note. A spring is dispersive, meaning that higher frequencies have a slower velocity of propagation then lower ones. So an impulse traveling down the spring turns into a chirp and you can hear this is you play staccato.

There are various methods for modeling this. There's an old international patent where a chirp is generated and mixed with a generic reverb (the Amplitube clip sounds like it's using this since I only hear the chirp once when the string is plucked rather than repeating and becoming increasingly more smeared). Patent here: http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?wo=2001082287

Another method involves using allpass filters to model the dispersion via waveguide digital filters (see Julius O, Smith's work). Supposedly very good sounding but in my tests I ended up needing dozens (if not hundreds) of allpass filters to simulate it correctly which became cumbersome and difficult to implement efficiently.

The Axe-Fx uses a proprietary technique that I don't think anyone else uses or has even figured out. It requires a bit more horsepower but it's inherently very accurate. It also has a relatively small code footprint.
 
Re: Boing-be-gone :eek:)

stevorc321 said:
Radley said:
I believe Cliff was right on the money with the de-boing-ing. The 'boing' sounds were the result of less than ideal playing conditions - they were never thought of as a good sound or 'feature', (except for maybe Halloween) :shock:
Click to expand...
Sure - if you are after a smooth, lush verb - but in surf and some of the raw, west coast blues etc that ugliness is part of the sound. It's part of the surf guitar culture. I'm mean guys intentionally kick the crap out of their tanks - they are going for a pretty over the top sort of sound - but vintage all the way!!
Click to expand...

You mean, like having "Kick" (or more appropriate, "Crash") feature on the reverb which can be assigned to a CC? :lol:
 
Wow Cliff, I can't imagine any other company having this great support and close interaction with their customers!! This is really something. The spring number option is great. Is it possible to add gain and eq to the reverb in the Axe or place it in front of an amp block? The 63 tank really changes the guitar tone so the sound becomes metallic and the guitar sounds really far away with added gain.
Here is a test I just did with my 63 reissue fender tank. I still think the clips in my 1st post on page 1 demonstrates the tank sound better than my clip here. Fender strat, texas special neck pickup > reverb tank > Pod-X3 (twin reverb amp setting, close mic cab), No effects added. sorry for poor peak control...
I sweep each knob on the tank while playing an open string (dwell, mix, tone) from dry 1 to 10 . The most common settings for surf is having all knob controls on 6 or 7. That is the classic sound. The sound is dry when dwell or mix knobs are on 1.

Fender 63 tank, testing: http://www.mediafire.com/?kmkgm3mm4g3
0-18______Dry guitar
18-44_____Dwell knob sweep 1-10 (mix & tone on 7. It overdrives the chord on 9-10, over peaked)
44-1.08____Mix knob sweep 1-10 (Dwell & tone on 7)
1.08-1.32__Tone knob sweep 1-10 (Dwell & mix on 7)
1.32-1.57__Muted & open boing, slow & fast. (All on 7)
1.57-2.14__Boing + chord. Lenght & character. (All on 7)
 
Lemurstrat said:
Is it possible to add gain and eq to the reverb in the Axe or place it in front of an amp block?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Axe lets you place effect blocks in any order you want, also in parallel. So you can definitely add reverb before amp. You can actually create a chain reverb-eq-drive which goes into amp, and the chain could go parallel with your dry sound. So you'd then have overdriven and eq'd reverb mixed with dry sound into amp. The options are almost unlimited with this unit.
 
Re: Boing-be-gone :eek:)

Radley said:
stevorc321 said:
Radley said:
I believe Cliff was right on the money with the de-boing-ing. The 'boing' sounds were the result of less than ideal playing conditions - they were never thought of as a good sound or 'feature', (except for maybe Halloween) :shock:
Click to expand...
Sure - if you are after a smooth, lush verb - but in surf and some of the raw, west coast blues etc that ugliness is part of the sound. It's part of the surf guitar culture. I'm mean guys intentionally kick the crap out of their tanks - they are going for a pretty over the top sort of sound - but vintage all the way!!
Click to expand...

Stevorc321,

I understand, but there is the all-important element of user 'timing' that is missing when it's 'pre-programmed' - it seems to me that the 'boing' usually comes at the wrong time! :( If there is a way to manually trigger this, it becomes a lot more useful & musical, no?
Click to expand...
Cool - yeah analogue vs digital boing!! I was taking your "never thought of as a good sound" as referring to outboard tanks in general. Cliffs response above regarding his take on modelling the boing looks pretty cool though!!
 
Lemurstrat said:
Wow Cliff, I can't imagine any other company having this great support and close interaction with their customers!! This is really something. The spring number option is great. Is it possible to add gain and eq to the reverb in the Axe or place it in front of an amp block? The 63 tank really changes the guitar tone so the sound becomes metallic and the guitar sounds really far away with added gain.
Here is a test I just did with my 63 reissue fender tank. I still think the clips in my 1st post on page 1 demonstrates the tank sound better than my clip here. Fender strat, texas special neck pickup > reverb tank > Pod-X3 (twin reverb amp setting, close mic cab), No effects added. sorry for poor peak control...
I sweep each knob on the tank while playing an open string (dwell, mix, tone) from dry 1 to 10 . The most common settings for surf is having all knob controls on 6 or 7. That is the classic sound. The sound is dry when dwell or mix knobs are on 1.

Fender 63 tank, testing: http://www.mediafire.com/?kmkgm3mm4g3
0-18______Dry guitar
18-44_____Dwell knob sweep 1-10 (mix & tone on 7. It overdrives the chord on 9-10, over peaked)
44-1.08____Mix knob sweep 1-10 (Dwell & tone on 7)
1.08-1.32__Tone knob sweep 1-10 (Dwell & mix on 7)
1.32-1.57__Muted & open boing, slow & fast. (All on 7)
1.57-2.14__Boing + chord. Lenght & character. (All on 7)
Click to expand...

That is a proper clip for the demonstration of the Fender tank, and I'll do mine when I come back from work tonight. There is a good natured jab here at the cork-sniffery of the boing factor, but it should be apparent to people who don't know about these Fender tanks that the boing is not all there is to this unit. The sound coloration is not just the result of the reverb, the tank circuitry also gives it its slightly overdriven tone. So yeah, adding a boing parameter to the firmware will give the drip, drip, but if the rest of the circuitry is not taken into account, it will be an almost meaningless drip drip, and as Yoda would say, a true vintage reverb, it will not be.

Now, that's cork sniffery :mrgreen:
 
Deltones said:
The sound coloration is not just the result of the reverb, the tank circuitry also gives it its slightly overdriven tone. So yeah, adding a boing parameter to the firmware will give the drip, drip, but if the rest of the circuitry is not taken into account
Click to expand...

It's call "reverb block". There is already a drive block. We have all the brick we need to build a house... :lol:
 
I haven't tried it, but it seems like a clean boost block or maybe an EQ block used to boost the signal could provide the gain bump from the tank y'all are looking for.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom