Can someone help explain this to me? Losing my mind again here.

I am amazed how many people discount technique has THE MAJOR factor for deferences in sound. Yes gear is very important but mainly it’s in HOW the guitar is played. How much pressure is exerted from the fretting hand and the pick. There are SO MANY VARIABLES. I‘ve heard people sit in on the SAME EXACT RIG, same guitar, same amp, same pedals and sound nothing alike.
 
Pickups and guitar matter a TON, and I think it's downplayed a lot on here.
I would agree with both.
If you're talking about matching a player's style, then yes, your hands make all the difference in the world. But if you don't have the tone to go with it, well you're only part of the way there.
You can get their tone, yet sound like someone else playing their guitar, but you'd still have the tone.
There's a clip of EVH playing a strat unplugged, and yeah, it sounds like Eddie. But it still lacks his tone.
I say, style is in the hands; Tone is in the gear.
 
Maybe I'm having a brain fart here, but if I recorded it straight from USB using the same AFX output level as he had on his preset, then what else would I adjust to record it at the same volume as him? Just keep increasing AFX output/DAW levels until it's just as loud?
Your recording is straight from your DAW, right? I'm guessing that CC's has been processed/mastered to have louder output.
 
...Also thank you for not telling me "it's because you're terrible, and your hands are useless arm ornaments" or something like that.
I'm totally gonna file that comment away to use on my drummer, lol. He's actually a good, reliable player who comes to rehearsals and gigs knowing all his parts, but I'd still like to see the look on his face when I tell him that. :D
 
I think the lessons I'm learning here is that
1. Pickups and guitar matter a TON, and I think it's downplayed a lot on here. Even though I can tweak the heck out of my axe and get things close to where I want them to be if I need to, the right pickups/guitar for the job (and my ears) will get me there much quicker.

2. While others seem to enjoy my unaltered tone using that preset, I'm learning that I really don't like this bridge pickup and the tones it brings. I haven't had much good luck with chunky abrasive ceramics in the past, but hearing others play them keeps making me want to give them another shot.

Either way, in hindsight this probably should've been a Lounge post about pickups, because that seems to be the consensus difference.
you can actually effectively tweak to sound like something even if you don't have the pickups, use the input eq on the amp, in very crude terms its like modifying the di using a peq in combination with a tilt eq.

You can experiment with side chaining it to input 1 or default.

its roughly what pick ups do as well apart from capturing the dynamics of your playing.

you can also use a separate peq/ geq block before amp/drive for even more control

A lot of metal artists tend to eq the di before reamping their songs for records.

doing it before it gets to amp drive yields very different result to doing it after.


We have like endless possibilities on the axe 3.

I use some of the above tricks to avoid the mid range mud on my guitar with emg's. but I don't need it for the one with dimarzios.


Ofcourse having the pickup itself and messing with the height and positions etc is the real deal. but you can get way more closer than you think.
 
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you can actually effectively tweak to sound like something even if you don't have the pickups, use the input eq on the amp, in very crude terms its like modifying the di using a peq in combination with a tilt eq.

You can experiment with side chaining it to input 1 or default.

its roughly what pick ups do as well apart from capturing the dynamics of your playing.

you can also use a separate peq/ geq block before amp/drive for even more control

A lot of metal artists tend to eq the di before reamping their songs for records.

doing it before it gets to amp drive yields very different result to doing it after.


We have like endless possibilities on the axe 3.

I use some of the above tricks to avoid the mid range mud on my guitar with emg's. but I don't need it for the one with dimarzios.


Ofcourse having the pickup itself and messing with the height and positions etc is the real deal. but you can get way more closer than you think.
Sounds like you have a good grasp of this type of thing. Could you elaborate a little more please? Even with my guitar, on Mesa amps (JP2C, Recto's, IIC+) I still have a little trouble with getting that really tight, percussive, low-note palm-mutes like Petrucci gets. I can get it no problem using my (real) Tri Axis or Dual Rec, but in the Axe, I actually tend to use different amps. (I'm pretty sure it's just my headphones, but until I get the monitoring setup ironed out, they do the trick. And do sound great, overall.)

The best way I can describe it, is even when I choke up past the bridge to the point that the note sounds about 1/4 step sharp, there's still this 'flub' that lingers, kinda like a rubber band. The 'chunk' comes through, but that flub stays with it also, as opposed to getting choked off. It's subtle, but I'd love to dial it completely out.

I've tried dialing the MV way down like some have suggested, rolling off the lows, drastically cutting the bass, and even all the deep-dive parameters I don't really understand. It's really close however, just not 100%. I also use a global EQ as a headphone correction curve, but I haven't yet tried using EQ like you said above, pre-amp block. Can you recommend specific frequencies, Q's and dB's to try?
 
Sounds like you have a good grasp of this type of thing. Could you elaborate a little more please? Even with my guitar, on Mesa amps (JP2C, Recto's, IIC+) I still have a little trouble with getting that really tight, percussive, low-note palm-mutes like Petrucci gets. I can get it no problem using my (real) Tri Axis or Dual Rec, but in the Axe, I actually tend to use different amps. (I'm pretty sure it's just my headphones, but until I get the monitoring setup ironed out, they do the trick. And do sound great, overall.)

The best way I can describe it, is even when I choke up past the bridge to the point that the note sounds about 1/4 step sharp, there's still this 'flub' that lingers, kinda like a rubber band. The 'chunk' comes through, but that flub stays with it also, as opposed to getting choked off. It's subtle, but I'd love to dial it completely out.

I've tried dialing the MV way down like some have suggested, rolling off the lows, drastically cutting the bass, and even all the deep-dive parameters I don't really understand. It's really close however, just not 100%. I also use a global EQ as a headphone correction curve, but I haven't yet tried using EQ like you said above, pre-amp block. Can you recommend specific frequencies, Q's and dB's to try?
Output volume also matters. Just try if turning up your headphones fixes your issues. Most likely your real rigs are much louder than what you use with studio monitors or headphones. On top of that headphones will not have a feedback loop between the guitar and speakers and that changes how it all feels. The Gain Enhancer in the Output Compressor of the Amp block is exactly for that.

Generally the thing to do to tighten up an amp is to simply throw something in front of it that rolls off the low end and boosts the midrange. That's why a lot of people use the Tube Screamer for that but a graphic or parametric EQ is way more powerful for shaping the sound. You can then turn up the lows later, whether it's with another EQ or the amp controls. The Mesa Mark series EQ in the graphic EQ block is a good starting point because it's straightforward to use.

You could also try adjusting your pickups and see if that helps you get closer to what you want.
 
^ You're definitely right about volume. I had been turning the volume way down in the HP's due to some ringing in my ears, but I've come to realize it's the metronome that's responsible for that. I just now tried an EQ pre-cab block, did some amp tweaks, and played at a big-smile-on-my-face volume, and it did help. I tweaked a 5153 100w red factory preset, and damn if substituting 'Bassguy' tonestack didn't make the biggest difference.

I just try different factory presets (yes, I've tried starting from scratch, but I get better results using factory, for now), tweak whatever takes me in what seems like a better direction, then save the preset to a new spot. On following days I'll go back and review them with fresh ears, and play with the ones that sound the best. But really, they're all just various levels of awesomeness. It's a rabbit-hole more than anything, cuz in general I love what I'm hearing! This fuckin thing...!
 
Sounds like you have a good grasp of this type of thing. Could you elaborate a little more please? Even with my guitar, on Mesa amps (JP2C, Recto's, IIC+) I still have a little trouble with getting that really tight, percussive, low-note palm-mutes like Petrucci gets. I can get it no problem using my (real) Tri Axis or Dual Rec, but in the Axe, I actually tend to use different amps. (I'm pretty sure it's just my headphones, but until I get the monitoring setup ironed out, they do the trick. And do sound great, overall.)

The best way I can describe it, is even when I choke up past the bridge to the point that the note sounds about 1/4 step sharp, there's still this 'flub' that lingers, kinda like a rubber band. The 'chunk' comes through, but that flub stays with it also, as opposed to getting choked off. It's subtle, but I'd love to dial it completely out.

I've tried dialing the MV way down like some have suggested, rolling off the lows, drastically cutting the bass, and even all the deep-dive parameters I don't really understand. It's really close however, just not 100%. I also use a global EQ as a headphone correction curve, but I haven't yet tried using EQ like you said above, pre-amp block. Can you recommend specific frequencies, Q's and dB's to try?
Check your Dm.
 
I am amazed how many people discount technique has THE MAJOR factor for deferences in sound. Yes gear is very important but mainly it’s in HOW the guitar is played. How much pressure is exerted from the fretting hand and the pick. There are SO MANY VARIABLES. I‘ve heard people sit in on the SAME EXACT RIG, same guitar, same amp, same pedals and sound nothing alike.
Here’s another example. I’ll tell it on myself. And it’s not about being a better or worse player. Sometimes it’s just about how you PULL the sound out with your left and right hands.

Many years ago I bought a Mesa/Boogie Quad, a light Randall power amp going into a pair of 12” Celestians. I had a rack of effects using the Lake Butler Mitigator foot controller. I just wasn’t getting the fusion tone I was looking for. I had a friend come check it out. He took my guitar and played. It sounded GREAT. Nothing like what I was getting.

By any standard I think anyone would say I was the better guitarist. Not bragging. But he pulled the sound out of my rig I was looking for. It was in his hands and mainly in his head.

generally speaking I don’t think you can copy a players sound by jotting down settings. That’s not where the real mojo is.
 
Here’s another example. I’ll tell it on myself. And it’s not about being a better or worse player. Sometimes it’s just about how you PULL the sound out with your left and right hands.
You got any other hands?:tonguewink:
But, to add to your point more seriously: When my friend comes over, we play through my Axe FXIII to a matrix and stereo 4x12. I like his tone, he likes mine. Sometimes we switch and we both look and feel uncomfortable. I never enjoy playing through his half of the patch, it just doesn't sound good to me. But when he plays through it, it sounds good. I guess its possible to hear the tone differently when you hear yourself playing through someone else's settings.
 
You got any other hands?:tonguewink:
But, to add to your point more seriously: When my friend comes over, we play through my Axe FXIII to a matrix and stereo 4x12. I like his tone, he likes mine. Sometimes we switch and we both look and feel uncomfortable. I never enjoy playing through his half of the patch, it just doesn't sound good to me. But when he plays through it, it sounds good. I guess its possible to hear the tone differently when you hear yourself playing through someone else's settings.
Yeah. I was thinking this as I was typing the above. Listening to yourself is a far different experience than listening to someone else. I also see this when recording my band in the studio. I rarely hear myself as I can later while playing it back. Good or bad it’s different. EQ sounds different, effects. All of it. That’s why reamping is important for me. Often the performance is ok but the sound is wrong. Yet no one in my band will ever tell me. They assume I know what I’m doing! Lol.
 
It's really cool that people are still chiming in and being helpful in this thread.

In my case, I fully understand the difference hands and playing style make, but I still contend that that only goes so far. Again, at a certain point it's like someone saying "well distortion is in the fingers" in response to a broken 5150. We're talking power chords, not wildly expressive leads.

I personally think there's a tiiiiny bit of production going on in that video I linked, but 90% of the difference is likely the guitar and pickups. The pickup I used to compare with, the Seymour Duncan Pegasus, is similar in output, and has been versatile and fun to use with the AFX, but after analyzing it a bit more I've also realized it's extremely boring in character and has a very "small" tone to it. No, I'm not referring to string gauge or fingers yet again - look up Seymour Duncan comparison videos and you'll see what I mean. While it sounds good on its own and can get some great tones through the AFX, the moment I compare it to others (like this video), I realize how boring it really is to me. But as others have mentioned, some people prefer the tone of my clip more, so this is strictly subjective.

That all being said, I'm pulling the trigger on some more exciting pickups to replace it with because I realize I don't have a guitar that really screams enough for me. Probably either the Suhr SSH+ or Duncan Black Winter.
 
Here's a test.
Take the playing / fingers / techniques out if the equation.

Tune an open tuning, Strum an open chord and compare.

If it's not sounding the same it's the guitar. That could be pickups, strings wood, hardware, etc.
 
Here’s another example. I’ll tell it on myself. And it’s not about being a better or worse player. Sometimes it’s just about how you PULL the sound out with your left and right hands.

Many years ago I bought a Mesa/Boogie Quad, a light Randall power amp going into a pair of 12” Celestians. I had a rack of effects using the Lake Butler Mitigator foot controller. I just wasn’t getting the fusion tone I was looking for. I had a friend come check it out. He took my guitar and played. It sounded GREAT. Nothing like what I was getting.

By any standard I think anyone would say I was the better guitarist. Not bragging. But he pulled the sound out of my rig I was looking for. It was in his hands and mainly in his head.

generally speaking I don’t think you can copy a players sound by jotting down settings. That’s not where the real mojo is.
It could also be because you're the listener in this situation. I have had people come over to try gear I was selling and often would end up with a "Wait, why am I selling this? It sounds great" experience because it's not me doing the playing. And it's not like the people trying the gear were any better guitarists than I am and I was the one turning the knobs on the gear too!
 
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