Can someone help explain this to me? Losing my mind again here.

RifferMcDuck

RifferMcDuck

Inspired
So I normally ignore any other AFX recordings and just stick to my own couple of presets that work decently for me, but the moment I go check out anything from any of the FAS celebrities, I'm slapped in the face with "holy cow, THAT'S how it's sounding for other people?" It can get really demoralizing.

Like for example, I LOVE the rhythm tone this Cooper Carter gentleman has at 10:17 of this video:



Tight, crunchy, beefy, has that scratchy "chock chock" presence to the palm mutes - it's ALIVE. So I find the same preset, adjust the amp to the one he's using in the video, copy his amp settings, EQ and IRs, and here's how a simple rhythm riff sounds on my end:



You'd have a very hard time convincing me those are at all similar preset settings, let alone the same one.

So my simple question is: why such a huge difference? Do people like this who demonstrate presets do extra mixing and producing to make it sound more "polished" than the preset actually is? Is he using a different signal chain not mentioned in the video? My clip was played through an Ltd H-1001 with a SD Pegasus bridge, but I found no more success with my BKP Juggernaut or my SD Custom. Am I just using terrible pickups for that kind of metal tone?

Help please, I really don't get it.
 
rossipedia said:
Those two sound very similar to me, it the biggest thing that stands out to me is that they are not level matched. Copper's sounds better immediately because it's louder. Fix that first before comparing.
Click to expand...

Do you mean listen to them at the same volume? I did, I always match output levels between USB audio and the AFX.
 
Your pickups are considerably more scooped in the mids than Coops were in that video, seem to be a little hotter, as well. This is why I'm a big fan of medium powered pickups; they tend to let the amps open up a little more and breath, while hotter pickups sound like they push the distortion into some kind of compression. It makes sense that your tone was a bit more focused and immediate, considering your pickups and the style of music they were designed to work with.

This is the exact area where you start hearing how both the hands and pickups play a major role in our tones. My best friend, bless his heart, sounds like complete ass playing through any of my presets. His right hand has no balls (he's a bitchpicker) and even using the same guitar/preset, he just doesn't hit the strings hard enough to get the same sound of it as I do. He's working on it. It's been 20 years, so progress is slow, but I love the guy. :tearsofjoy:


Try dialing back the Input Trim a bit, drop it by around a quarter and see if the amp starts to open up more.
 
How much bottom end are you running? I mean, in a mix, that is not going to work. You are taking away frequencies from other instruments. Also, where I found the magic I was looking for was in the impedance curve setting. Once I switched that, things sounded way better.
 
RevDrucifer said:
Your pickups are considerably more scooped in the mids than Coops were in that video, seem to be a little hotter, as well. This is why I'm a big fan of medium powered pickups; they tend to let the amps open up a little more and breath, while hotter pickups sound like they push the distortion into some kind of compression. It makes sense that your tone was a bit more focused and immediate, considering your pickups and the style of music they were designed to work with.

This is the exact area where you start hearing how both the hands and pickups play a major role in our tones. My best friend, bless his heart, sounds like complete ass playing through any of my presets. His right hand has no balls (he's a bitchpicker) and even using the same guitar/preset, he just doesn't hit the strings hard enough to get the same sound of it as I do. He's working on it. It's been 20 years, so progress is slow, but I love the guy. :tearsofjoy:


Try dialing back the Input Trim a bit, drop it by around a quarter and see if the amp starts to open up more.
Click to expand...

The SD Pegasus is medium output, with a DCR of only like 12.5k. There's not enough preamp gain to compensate for lowering the input trim much at all. And I am a hard picker...
 
PBGas said:
How much bottom end are you running? I mean, in a mix, that is not going to work. You are taking away frequencies from other instruments. Also, where I found the magic I was looking for was in the impedance curve setting. Once I switched that, things sounded way better.
Click to expand...

Bass is at 2.9, Depth 0. So not much.
 
I would suggest to start by increasing your recording level to match both recordings. Cooper is louder, and that makes it "better" to the ear
RifferMcDuck said:
Do you mean listen to them at the same volume? I did, I always match output levels between USB audio and the AFX.
Click to expand...

Not just listen, but record them at the same volume. Your recording has lower volume than Cooper's
 
Piing said:
I would suggest to start by increasing your recording level to match both recordings. Cooper is louder, and that makes it "better" to the ear


Not just listen, but record them at the same volume. Your recording has lower volume than Cooper's
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm having a brain fart here, but if I recorded it straight from USB using the same AFX output level as he had on his preset, then what else would I adjust to record it at the same volume as him? Just keep increasing AFX output/DAW levels until it's just as loud?
 
Sounds mostly like a pickup/level difference. I actually like your tone better, just needs to be a little louder 🤷‍♂️ To match his tone boost your 2k.
 
Feflicker said:
Sounds mostly like a pickup/level difference. I actually like your tone better, just needs to be a little louder 🤷‍♂️ To match his tone boost your 2k.
Click to expand...

Thank you, but I'm confused over the louder aspect. Raising amp level any more than it is clips output levels - should I just increase it anyways?
 
RifferMcDuck said:
Thank you, but I'm confused over the louder aspect. Raising amp level any more than it is clips output levels - should I just increase it anyways?
Click to expand...
No. Adjust the Amp 'Level' to get the preset to be around the '0' line in the Output block meter for rhythm type tones. After recording, in this single channel example, you can turn up the channel fader on your DAW to get the DAW output just below the clipping point before exporting it.

However, volume isn't going to make that much of a difference between these two recordings. There's more going on here?
 
Last edited:
Moke said:
No. Adjust the Amp 'Level' to get the preset to be around the '0' line in the Output block meter for rhythm type tones. After recording, in this single channel example, you can turn up the channel fader on your DAW to get the DAW output just below the clipping point before exporting it.

However, volume isn't going to make that much of a difference between these two recordings. There's more going on here?
Click to expand...



Here's another rhythm riff with louder volume, and BKP Juggernauts - which should be a little closer in output and tone to Cooper's guitar.
 
Different guitars, different hands thru same preset / device = different tone. If Cooper gave you his DI track and you played it back on your Axefx with the same preset, it would sound exactly the same as he played it on his Axefx. We did this test a while back with a Leon Todd vid - he gave us his DI / preset and those of us who played his DI on our own Axefx nailed his tone exactly (as expected) - but (at least for me and I expect for most), not with my different guitar and hands which make a big difference.

I've suggested many times that the gurus start sharing their DIs for such vids as it would solve the constant problem of "why don't I sound like ...", because, with a DI, the sharee could prove without a doubt on their own that their Axefx could produce that sound - it's a pita for them to provide that DI though so ...

Edit - without that DI, the conversation tends to go around and around endlessly, and the OP's suspicion that the tone difference is related to their Axefx lingers.
 
Last edited:
sprint said:
Different guitars, different hands thru same preset device = different tone. If Cooper gave you his DI track and you played it back on your Axefx with the same preset, it would sound exactly the same as he played it on his Axefx. We did this test a while back with a Leon Todd vid - he gave us the DI and preset and those of us who played his DI on our own Axefx nailed his tone - but (at least for me anyway), not with my different guitar and hands which make a big difference.

I've suggested many times that the gurus start sharing their DIs for such vids as it would solve the constant problem of "why don't I sound like ..." - it's a pita for them to do though so ...
Click to expand...

This is strange to mention for me, because my guitar signal strength was vastly weaker than his, and I A/B'd with a similar guitar with the same pickups. I couldn't even touch his preamp gain levels. I came to my own conclusion that he was boosting it or cranking input trim, but I can see that not being the case. So now I'm even more confused.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom