Can internal clipping occur?

nikki-k

Experienced
Can internal clipping occur?
Specifically:

A) Is it possible to "overload" a Block? IOW, if the output level of an individual block, either directly, or indirectly via some parameter within the block, is set high enough, can it then *clip the signal* at that point?

B) Is it possible for one block's *output* to clip the *input* of a subsequent block?

I suppose, simplified, this is a general question of the user's ability to create a patch such that the *software clips*, be it within a block, feeding a block, etc. Is it possible?
 
A. Only the delay block from what cliff has said. Too much feedback and level.
B. no in the respect you are speaking about ( other than the delay block). But yes in the sense that if you send a block with a high level to a block like drive or amp, it can clip it intentionally :)
 
Digital overflow is virtually impossible. Some blocks have limiting at certain spots in the signal flow to prevent against excessive volume in the event of incorrect parameter settings. I.e. the Delay block will clip the signal if the feedback is set too high resulting in a runaway condition.
 
does that mean we CANT overload a feedback setting if thats what we're going for? like a memory man deluxe i-turned-up-the-feedback-with-my-hand-to-sound-like-radiohead sound?
 
does that mean we CANT overload a feedback setting if thats what we're going for? like a memory man deluxe i-turned-up-the-feedback-with-my-hand-to-sound-like-radiohead sound?


Yes you can, the delay is able to go into self-oscillation. But you do have to be careful with levels. You just set the feedback over 100% (you will notice it goes to 200% on the master feedback)
 
i noticed some blocks modelling analog gear (i think it was reverb 2290 or so) do distort when driven to hard. anyone can confirm this ?
 
well i know you can get feedback above 100%, but when it starts clipping, does it limit it so you cant get that nasty nasty clipping (ah screw it, ill just try it...) well, it starts to sound like it, then it just stops. It never goes so far that it totally breaks down and crunches like i remember. Unfortunate...i thought it was capable of this...
 
i noticed some blocks modelling analog gear (i think it was reverb 2290 or so) do distort when driven to hard. anyone can confirm this ?

2290 is a digital delay.

there is a drive parameter wah, chorus, flanger, and delay to emulate this. It is only there if you want it.
 
well i know you can get feedback above 100%, but when it starts clipping, does it limit it so you cant get that nasty nasty clipping (ah screw it, ill just try it...) well, it starts to sound like it, then it just stops. It never goes so far that it totally breaks down and crunches like i remember. Unfortunate...i thought it was capable of this...

Turn up the drive
 
(sigh) So it is possible to clip internally (digitally)?

Maybe I should elaborate. If I raise the output of a Block, say, to the maximum output, and then reduce the output of a Block following it so as to not clip *the output*, would I create clipping (*digital overload*) at some point with those two blocks? This is but one scenario.. and an overblown, ridiculous one.. where someone could unintentionally create unwanted *distortion/clipping*, and with only the output meter as a means for visual clipping detection, I could foresee the chasing of unwanted distortion to be... possibly challenging.

I practice proper gain staging, even when I am informed of having ridiculous amounts of headroom (always treat electronics as being hot.. ALWAYS; caps, for one, can, and do, kill). Comparatively, with a Pro Tools TDM system, one is dealing with a (predominantly) fixed-bit pathway/mixer, and thus gain staging is vital. With a Pro Tools native 64-bit floating system, however, one could opt to relax those concerns due to the (relative) difficulty one may find in inducing clipping (internally). I assumed the Axe was floating point, and likely had enough headroom to preclude the occurrence of clipping. However, even in the "native floating point DAWquencer world," there are exceptions, such as plugins that are crafted specifically to react to incoming signal levels dynamically, thus demanding proper attention to gain staging (or incur digital distortion/clipping). This was my reasoning behind asking... not that I have communicated it well/properly here (sigh).
 
well i know you can get feedback above 100%, but when it starts clipping, does it limit it so you cant get that nasty nasty clipping (ah screw it, ill just try it...) well, it starts to sound like it, then it just stops. It never goes so far that it totally breaks down and crunches like i remember. Unfortunate...i thought it was capable of this...
As Mr. Chase has explained here, there's a self-protection against "digital self-ignition" LOL
With the Drive control you can create virtual analogical overload.
 
Nikki, have a look at the thread I've linked here above ;)
Thank you, found the information on the last page that clarified some things quite nicely :D

As Mr. Chase has explained here, there's a self-protection against "digital self-ignition" LOL
With the Drive control you can create virtual analogical overload.
...And this is what I was trying to describe when I brought up plugins that can exist within a floating point environment, yet *demand* attention to gain staging (for effective use). Some bits put forth within this thread prompted me to consider if any Blocks with *intentional* "distortive characteristics" (eg Drive) could be thus pushed into unwanted territories in which digital nastiness would/could occur.

I figured Cliff learned from the past (design and coding, to mention just two aspects of creating the Axe), but since he seems pretty available here, I figured why not ask, rather than rely solely on speculation :D I LOVE understanding my tools, and this thread (plus Gianfranco's link) have (nearly) wrapped this aspect of the Axe up quite nicely. Thanks again! :D
 
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