Can i use Spdif for fxloop?

RackAddict

RackAddict

Previous handle "Djenter"
Final question before my finalized purchase, can someone please tell me if I can use a digital send and return?I know the analog ones are find but I see nothing in the manual about this for spdif.
I need to use Two notes torpedo studio rack unit via spdif as the cab simulations. These guys make some very serious cab sims.
 
I would say no because the AxeFX would be set as master clock source on the send and would have to be set as slave on the return which isn't possible. Same for any device I suspect.

Of course if you have two AxeFX's then you're in luck. Edit: on second thoughts I don't think you can daisy chain using S/pdif.

You could just disable Cab modelling on the AxeFX and bus the track you're recording on to another track with Torpedo cab on it. That is assuming torpedo studio rack unit is a plugin. I'm not familiar with Torpedo stuff.

EDIT: upon investigation I see it is indeed an outboard rack, so the answer to your question is no, on any device, not just AxeFX.
 
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Yes, you can use any digital I/O gear in a loop with the Axe FX iii, as long as it supports 48kHz. @Zedhed what you mentioned is partially correct. If you are only sending digital audio one way, then yes - you have to use the “sending” device as the clock source (master). If you are both sending and returning digital audio to/from the same device, then either device can be the master clock. Just make sure to set the other device to slave.

EDIT: sorry - looking at older threads, there may be a limitation in the Axe FX for this, not because of clocking, but because of settings options:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/spdif-or-aes-as-external-fx-loop.134759/
 
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I was under the impression he wanted to use a loop in the traditional sense, as one would in an amp. In other words sending digital both ways simultaneously.
 
getlostinsound said:
If you are both sending and returning digital audio to/from the same device, then either device can be the master clock. Just make sure to set the other device to slave.
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So how does one set the AxeFx as Master to send to the Torpedo whilst setting it to slave from the Torpedo on the return....simultaneously?
 
Zedhed said:
So how does one set the AxeFx as Master to send to the Torpedo whilst setting it to slave from the Torpedo on the return....simultaneously?
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One doesn’t! If both cables are connected, you can either set the Axe as master and Torpedo a slave, or vice versa.

Whichever device is set to master ignores the clock on the incoming digital audio signal and instead uses its own clock.

The slave device stops or ignores its own clock and syncs to the clock of the incoming digital audio signal.
 
Zedhed said:
I was under the impression he wanted to use a loop in the traditional sense, as one would in an amp. In other words sending digital both ways simultaneously.
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Yes, I think you’re right. I found that older thread (where Cliff said “I’ll think about it”) after my first post, and I’m not sure there have been any updates on the issue since then.
 
getlostinsound said:
One doesn’t! If both cables are connected, you can either set the Axe as master and Torpedo a slave, or vice versa.

Whichever device is set to master ignores the clock on the incoming digital audio signal and instead uses its own clock.

The slave device stops or ignores its own clock and syncs to the clock of the incoming digital audio signal.
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Yes I understand that, that's the traditional way of using two devices digitally connected.
But to put the AxeFx return digital signal (in this case coming back from the Torpedo), the AxeFx would have to be the slave to read the Torpedo clock when it has been set to Master to send the signal. Creating a 'live' digital loop with these two units is essentially creating the need for three clock sources instead of two. AxeFx >Torpedo>AxeFx

I notice Cliff nor anybody else came back with an answer in that thread you linked to and I suspect this is why.
 
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Yikes.

Sounds like it has no tested guarantees... and all this is needed to be able to get non-linear convolution IR technology off the Torpedo studio and may not even work.

I am going to send a link to this thread to two notes on this matter.

Sending through the converters of the axe fx would have to be compared to running it's IR's internally.

Maybe I can run the AFX 3 analog into PT so that I can use wall of sound in pro tools to get the non-linear IR sound in that but then would have to send back out to the axe fx for the ambience special effects... so maybe the best bet is to use spdif or something in pro tools with my omni soundcard as the master clock and send spdif to the afx 48k sample rate to the axe fx and then back spdif again to pro tools.?
 
Zedhed said:
Yes I understand that, that's the traditional way of using two devices digitally connected.
But to put the AxeFx return digital signal (in this case coming back from the Torpedo), the AxeFx would have to be the slave to read the Torpedo clock when it has been set to Master to send the signal. Creating a 'live' digital loop with these two units is essentially creating the need for three clock sources instead of two. AxeFx >Torpedo>AxeFx

I notice Cliff nor anybody else came back with an answer in that thread you linked to and I suspect this is why.
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clock source and audio source are two independent things. the axefx does not have to be the source of the clock signal to send audio.
 
flying_walrus said:
clock source and audio source are two independent things.
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No shit sherlock.

flying_walrus said:
the axefx does not have to be the source of the clock signal to send audio.
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When sending or receiving digital data via a digital link it either has to be the source or the slave to the source. The OP is wanting to use a digital connection as a loop. I'm saying one unit can't be the master and slave simultaneously which it would have to do in order to send and receive a digital signal at the same time.
Go ahead, try it....I'd be happy to be proven wrong.


@ OP S/pdif the Omni & AxeFx together and run the Torpedo as an anologue FX loop through the AxeFx.
 
Zedhed said:
No shit sherlock.
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wow, i’m impressed by your maturity level. do you win a lot of arguments this way?

When sending or receiving digital data via a digital link it either has to be the source or the slave to the source. The OP is wanting to use a digital connection as a loop. I'm saying one unit can't be the master and slave simultaneously which it would have to do in order to send and receive a digital signal at the same time.
Go ahead, try it....I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
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according to your theory no unit would ever be able to both send and receive audio over spdif/AES.
 
Zedhed said:
I'm saying one unit can't be the master and slave simultaneously which it would have to do in order to send and receive a digital signal at the same time.
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This is incorrect. If you're using the digital input on the Axe-FX (or setting word clock to SPDIF/AES while using analog input) the Axe-FX is slaved to the incoming digital signal. The SPDIF/AES outputs still function in this scenario.

Whether you can use digital out/in as a loop depends on whether the other device can function as master while using both its digital in and out. For example, a second Axe-FX couldn't be used with a digital send & return from/to the first. (You could chain one or more digitally in a one-way path though.) Some audio interfaces can do this; others might not allow it with their digital input being non-functional while set to internal clock. (I don't know if the Torpedo can be used in this way.)

Note that the SPDIF input currently means giving up the use of the analog instrument input. So, your guitar would have to connect to input 2, 3 or 4.
 
flying_walrus said:
wow, i’m impressed by your maturity level. do you win a lot of arguments this way?



according to your theory no unit would ever be able to both send and receive audio over spdif/AES.
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On a digital connection, no 'audio' is passing through, only O's & 1's....that's the point I think you're missing.
 
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Zedhed said:
@ OP S/pdif the Omni & AxeFx together and run the Torpedo as an anologue FX loop through the AxeFx.
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maybe if I spdif clock (or AES) the axe and the daw together, i guess I could do the torpedo through the analog fx loop of the axe fx, but only if the axe 3 D to A and A to D converters are at the level of the Torpedo Studio which is the one I now own. But my concern is the chain of the three devices in the clocking protocol on spdif or AES... would this be a disaster?

what about chaining the three points in the digital domain? I would rather clock the axeFX AES to the DAW with aes or spdif (which ever) but use analog (or digital if it works) output of the AxeFx to the Torpedo Studio unit, but then for sure use the digital connection that is not being used (as digital output from the Torpedo to the Axe FX input obviously digital... run the FX blocks, then use a Digital output of the Axe FX into the DAW (or Analog depending on how good the AxeFX D to A converters are at its outputs. But I am not concerned with any conversion quality issues from the Amo block to the Torpedo cab sim since it won't be a type of signal i am worried about as much as I am from the point of non-linear convolution IR quality of the Two notes stuff to the Daw.

In a live situation I wouldn't bring the two notes torpedo and I would use either Ownhammers, stock IRs or Sigma ones in the Axe FX cab block.

In this case would there be some chain of clocking possible or would everything be screwed up with these three points?

With this being said I have a wordclock requiest for an Axe FX 3 Mk2 release so that i can properly sync clocking of more devices.
 
Djenter said:
In this case would there be some chain of clocking possible or would everything be screwed up with these three points?
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If you're using the Axe-FX SPDIF or AES input, that incoming signal has to be the clock source. You can't somehow clock to another computer/DAW while receiving a different signal at SPDIF/AES.

It's likely that you can use a digital connection in at least one direction (either one) sending to & returning from the Torpedo. Whether it's possible to have both connections be digital depends on whether the Torpedo can use its internal clock while both digital in & out function. This would work fine here with the Axe-FX II and a Focusrite Saffire Pro 24 for example, sending through DAW effects and returning to the Axe-FX. (Similar to the Axe-FX III, this would mean needing to use Input 2 for guitar, plus a nonstandard grid routing.)
 
for now will just keep it simple and go analog into two notes WoS plug-in the Daw without doing the torpedo rack thing and then come back out AES or spdif digital in and out of the Axe 3 i guess. But Ive made the request for word clocking on an mk2 model to address the points you mention above (spdif clocking is not reliable in my experience as is Wordclocking. it sometimes causes errors and glitches. I havent tried with AES yet but I don't even own an Axe FX 3 yet since its these support inquiries which need some sort of resolution before I either take my invite or not take it).

Btw, please demo the WoS plug-in, it sounds ridiculous and also has nonlinear convolution IR like in the Studio rack (but the Live rack doesnt have non linear, neither does the Cab M pedal).
 
SPDIF in is mono and you have to use a volume block to make it on both left and right channels. I was very surprised to find this and feel it really is a missed opportunity to allow for the unit to be used as a true stereo piece of digital outboard gear. The return is stereo. I use both with my UAD Apollos just fine. Typically, I use Neural DSP amps in my DAW and run them mono SPDIF into a DI patch with every effect I can pack into it. Then out the SPDIF back to the Apollo.
 
Is this going to clock correctly? If the daw is clocked by BNC connectors and then im adding the AES connection? It just seems like some thing will not go right because all the other digital rack gear is BNC-clocked
 
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