Can I do this? Possibly complex preset help

ChainOfThought

ChainOfThought

Experienced
I just got my XL+ and what I'm about to try and figure out is one of the primary reasons that I upgraded from the ax8. Now that I'm trying to build the preset I'm wondering if I wasn't thinking it through clearly and won't actually be able to do it.

There are two guitarists (myself & another) and we rehearse regularly. He runs a traditional rig (mkIV + rack) and I run the axe into a matrix & cabs. His mkIV has a slave out which basically the totality of his signal just before it hits the power section...perfect for running through a cab block and then recording.

What I want is to have three different outputs based on 2 different inputs through the axefx.

1) My guitar > fx > amp block > fx > cab block > DAW
2) My guitar > fx > amb block > fx > analog out
3) His guitar > cab block > DAW

That third signal is the only thing I'm adding to my existing presets carried over from the ax8. So output 1 is my guitar through the cab block which will go silently into the DAW for recording (Whether usb or analog into interface, doesn't matter). Output 2 is usually what drives my stack. I was envisioning using the second cab block to record his amp, but I guess I never fully thought through how I would get his signal into & out of the axefx since I'm already using out 1 & 2.

Would it be possible to use the FX-Loop stereo in/out to accomplish this? I'm coming up short on trying to figure it out and getting a little bit discouraged. Won't regret the upgrade if I can't pull this off, but it is definitely something I was looking forward to. Worst case I'll just record his signal direct and run impulses in the DAW instead.
 
I think you can do it, assuming you want only mono for both guitars.

You'd need to hard pan one guitar right and the other left.

You'd use the FXLoop block to send his head into the chain.
 
That's what I was kind of thinking, that I could do it with left/right, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how. I'll have to mess with it some more.

I think what's tricking me the most is getting his input into the grid. If I use the fxloop to bring in his input, then how do I use the fxloop to also send a proper output? It's starting to make sense but I'm a few steps short for sure haha

Edit: reading the manual it looks like I should be able to plug his amp into FXL-Return-L and then hard pan things in the FXL so that only that input passes through to a cab block on the grid & I should be able to simultaneously run my signal from the grid through the right side of the FXL and out from FXL-Send-R. What I can’t figure out, is how to get the signal from that cab block back to FXL-Send-L, or any output other than output1.

Would I need to set it up so that my recording signal goes through out1-L, then use the loop like I described up there, but his cab block gets panned to go to out1-R, and my signal for the poweramp is the only thing coming off of the send jacks? I think I might need to look at mixer blocks for this? I think I’m headed in the right direction at least.

Edit2: I think I’m understanding better but I cant set it up to test yet. I would run my recording signal straight through the grid like normal from Inst to out1 but hard-pan it left at the output, and before the cab block tap it off to the fx loop. At the Fx-loop mixer I would hard pan that signal left. I would plug his amp into fx-return-R, follow the fx-loop with a cab block and set its input to R and send it to out1 hard-panned right.

So I would end up with
1) My guitar > Instr > drive > amp > effects > cab > out1-L
2) My guitar > Instr > drive > amp > effects > fx-loop-L
3) His amp > Return-R > cab > out1-R

I think this sounds like it’ll work theoretically? I’m not certain that the panning in the FX-loop block will behave like I’m expecting it to, but I think it might...

Edit3: I think I got it, everything appears to test correctly. I guess to use the R input on the fxloop return you have to have something plugged into the L? I just used the L/mono and it appears to work anyways.

1) My guitar > Instr > drive > amp > effects > cab > out1-L
2) My guitar > Instr > drive > amp > effects > fx-loop (panned L on fxloop mixer page) > Send L/mono
3) His amp > Return-L/mono > cab (input select Right) > out1-R

I'm only able to test it right now with one in/out at a time, but in doing that it appears that everything works and nothing overlaps. So I'm pretty sure I got it. I'm just leaving the whole post in tact because why not?
 
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I'm not really understanding what thats gonna do. It seems like what I came up with at the end of the post is gonna work, but I'll have to read up on the send/return blocks to see if there's a better way to do it. What you put there looks like it would just be a feedback loop, so there's definitely something I'm not understanding haha. Back to the manual.

Also to be clear, when I say 'effects' in the signal chains in the second post, I just mean chorus/verb/delay blocks, I'm not using any outboard processors or anything like that.

edit: I think I get it, but I don't think it would work for me. If I were only trying to run one mono output from the FXL then it would be great...take his input from the loop return, then pan it left in the loop block, send it through a cab impulse with input set to left, run that into the send block, run the return block back into the fxloop and mix it hard right then take the fx-loop send right out to the computer for recording. Trouble is I'm using fxloop left for my guitar and right for his, so I don't think this method will work. But I think the other method that I came up with will.

Definitely good info though, thanks.

Also could have it completely twisted and misunderstood, we'll see haha.
 
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If you used the send/return it would free Out 1 L/R for your own guitar outputs. This might be preferable if you normally use Out 1 and want the presets to remain usable for you whether or not the extra guitar/amp signal is present.

You don't need to worry too much about panning and selecting one input in cab if In 2 & Out 2 are used for this one signal. Just use In 2L and Out 2L and connect the blocks.
 
I think I get it, but I don’t quite understand how it works. If the fxloop block is bringing the signal in from his amp, then sending it back to a cab block and then back into the fx loop...wouldn’t it at that point just continue sending it back through the cab block and back through the loop and back through the cab and back through the loop...and so on, never hitting an output? Or I guess best case wouldn’t it be sending both the direct signal AND the signal that’s run back around through the cab block to the physical outputs? When I get a chance I just need to set it up and see/hear it happening, but trying to look at it on paper I’m having a hard time seeing how it works.

I'll probably end up just duplicating presets and using these specifically for the practice space. I run through different cabs at home anyways so it makes sense to have separate presets. When I was running the ax8 I actually used out1 without the cab block and straight to pa/cab & then the fxloop for sending it through the cab block and off to the interface.

That said, I'm not sure how I'll proceed now. The ideal scenario is to have out1 dedicated to a regular frfr stereo signal from my guitar, then have my signal running out2-L and his through a cab block to out2-R. ...this way the headphone outs still work

The alternative ideal (and probably the better one) would be to have out1 l/r dedicated to my guitar running straight to the poweramp & cabs, then have each guitar panned l/r running through cab blocks into out-2. THIS way I can use the regular out1 global volume expression for setting volume at rehearsal (we change up levels quite a lot). I’m sure I could use a volume block or something instead and run it the other way, I dunno.

At least as this point I’ve got one setup that appears to be working, and now you’ve given me a start on an alternative setup that I’ll have to weigh pro’s & con’s on and try and get that one working as well.
 
The signal reaches Output 2 by routing it to the FXL block input. Think of FXL as two half-size Out/In blocks that happen to be on the same square in this setup. Just beware you can get a feedback loop that might create noise if you unplug the cable from In 2L while on this preset. That will make the Axe-FX auto-switch to having the FXL act like a mixer block that passes signal through from the previous column to the next.

CUxT4EF.png
 
Ohhhh ok, thats pretty interesting. I never would have guessed that it would have the signal flow like that. I'll have to look at it for a while and see what I come up with.

Thanks for the help. Its kind of odd being so used to it already based on having had the ax8 for a few years, but still kind of have no idea whats going on because there's so much more available.

Edit: got a preset set up with the send return, works like a charm. I used the fxloop to run both cab blocks leaving out1 free for my primary tone (straight into my power amp). Now that I have a template for that I just gotta work on tones, MFC layout and decide on presets/scenes/xy for changes. Preset switching is unbelievably fast compared to the ax8, so I'm thinking separate presets for clean crunch and high gain then scenes and IA for effect changes.

But I digress. Thanks for all the help. Figuring this out was the primary reason for upgrading so I'm glad it's gonna work... At least theoretically, now I just gotta wait a few weeks until our next practice and hope that his rig plays nice with sending the output. Otherwise I'll have to run a di from his guitar and run him through the second amp block... Wouldn't be the worst thing.
 
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