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Camper 112cx vs Matrix q12a vs Atomic CLR

chris

Legend!
this whole argument is like saying "OMGZ if you change your volume knob at the gig your volume will change."

i don't even know what's being argued here and don't care. i'm just tired of seeing the same people cluttering up threads about opinions of non-fractal product.

we get it. you aren't going to change the world with your opinion about the CLR. the manufacturer is going to defend its product every time too (rightfully so).
 

cobbler

Fractal Fanatic
Dude ... Dude Dude...

wow -- you really spent some time writing this post.


The bottom line is the the DSP adds and cuts bass in a dramatic way. All you have to do is try it for yourself.

The fact that it does is not disputable.

Anybody that approaches this in an honest way will concur.

Again... I thought the CLR sounded terrific in the video ... but please put the snake oil away.

Regarding Jay -- his rants are hilarious and if you want to take them seriously -- please do so.... I don't.

As I and others have said. That is what the DSP is SUPPOSED to do! Compensate for the position you use it in. Duh! That it would make tonal changes if you switch it while leaving the monitor in the same position is plain ole common sense a child would grasp.

Please clarify your snake oil comment with facts explaining your position! I won't hold my breath, that's for sure.


...and I spent the time writing the long post because I am sick and tired of your non-factual and ignorant posts in every CLR thread. I thought maybe a little common sense was in order especially if there are new members here who don't know that you have a clear agenda when it comes to CLR monitors and their manufacturer.
 
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loopie

Inspired
It would be interesting to take the audio output from the recording, and upload it to SoundCloud so we could do an audio comparison of
SoundCloud and Youtube. I have always been very leery doing sound analysis/comparisons using Youtube. They compress everything so
much, you loose a lot of sound quality. I also have questions about what was used to record the video. Was it the microphone within the camera?
Those are not known for HD audio. I vote you do it again with all us listening in while you stream the audio. They we everyone can post their
request/ideas/complaints/etc. all at once. It would be a disaster.. Ha. :)

Thanks

Disclaimer: I am one of the guys doing that shootout. I'm the one filming. :)


Yes, YT added some horrible phasing to the parts with the more distorted material that was not on the original vid. That is aweful!

To those demanding more scientific conditions: We intentionally didn't want to go the scientific route and use a looper, place the cabs in exactly the same environment etc.
And we wouldn't have recorded with a hand cam to begin with.
All we wanted to do was a little comparison. The filming is only part of the accompanying documentation.

It was fun for us, useful for us, and useful for some others, that's all.
Günter and I agreed that we could do very well with either of the solutions.
 

LVC

Fractal Fanatic
Again "Dude"


The DSP dramatically alters the sound of a preset ... period. What goes in is not what comes out if you change the settings (and positions) as prescribed.

End of story.

There is no disputing this regardless of how many posts, powerpoint slides or ridiculous posts people throw up on forums.


It sounds different (more or less bass). If that is what is suppose to do fine -- but please do not try and sell me on something as being "the holy grail". That is the definition of "snake oil".

Again no one said in the video or in this thread stated that the CLR did not sound good ... because it did.




As I and others have said. That is what the DSP is SUPPOSED to do! Compensate for the position you use it in. Duh! That it would make tonal changes if you switch it while leaving the monitor in the same position is plain ole common sense a child would grasp.

Please clarify your snake oil comment with facts explaining your position! I won't hold my breath, that's for sure.


...and I spent the time writing the long post because I am sick and tired of your non-factual and ignorant posts in every CLR thread. I thought maybe a little common sense was in order especially if there are new members here who don't know that you have a clear agenda when it comes to CLR monitors and their manufacturer.
 

cobbler

Fractal Fanatic
Again "Dude"
I have respectfully asked you in the past to not reference me with that childish moniker. It's immatue and disrespectful. And you did it just now because I just today pointed this very thing out to you in PM where it belongs. You want to take it public then game on asshat!


The DSP dramatically alters the sound of a preset ... period. What goes in is not what comes out if you change the settings (and positions) as prescribed.

End of story.
Incorrect. Maybe that was not your experience but there are so many more that have found it just the opposite. Go figure

There is no disputing this regardless of how many posts, powerpoint slides or ridiculous posts people throw up on forums.
This "bolded" statement is just absurd on so many levels. So many have pointed out your errors with this topic yet you refuse to consider anything contrary to your agenda. You clearly do not understand the intention of how the DSP is to be used. That is the fact. And no bolded post insinuating that the MAJORITY who feel you are wrong make ridiculous posts changes that. Yikes!

It sounds different (more or less bass). If that is what is suppose to do fine -- but please do not try and sell me on something as being "the holy grail". That is the definition of "snake oil".
It sounds different. Again, duh! How many times does it have to be explained to you that it is INDEED what it is supposed to do? The settings are compensations for how you place your monitor. I could explain this one to a 10 year old and they would grasp it.

Please show me where in any post I have ever made on this forum where I used the words "the holy grail"? It has never happened therefore your "snake oil" comments directed at me are completely false. Go figure AGAIN!


@ Moderators: Can we please get some kind of ruling here. Laz continues to dominate any thread where the CLR is mentioned with his un-factual posts. I apologize for being the one to get involved with him in the last two threads he has brought down but it getting ridiculous and I for one am tired of his agenda against Atomic and their CLR product.
 

LVC

Fractal Fanatic
Dude


Obviously you are trying to get this thread closed.

It was closed on The Gear Page -- now you are trying to do the same here.

I already made my point.

I you want to continuing arguing and posting nonsense all in an effort to get a thread closed where folks voice opinions other than your own -- you can continuing arguing by yourself.






I have respectfully asked you in the past to not reference me with that childish moniker. It's immatue and disrespectful. And you did it just now because I just today pointed this very thing out to you in PM where it belongs. You want to take it public then game on asshat!




Incorrect. Maybe that was not your experience but there are so many more that have found it just the opposite. Go figure
This "bolded" statement is just absurd on so many levels. So many have pointed out your errors with this topic yet you refuse to consider anything contrary to your agenda. You clearly do not understand the intention of how the DSP is to be used. That is the fact. And no bolded post insinuating that the MAJORITY who feel you are wrong make ridiculous posts changes that. Yikes!



It sounds different. Again, duh! How many times does it have to be explained to you that it is INDEED what it is supposed to do? The settings are compensations for how you place your monitor. I could explain this one to a 10 year old and they would grasp it.

Please show me where in any post I have ever made on this forum where I used the words "the holy grail"? It has never happened therefore your "snake oil" comments directed at me are completely false. Go figure AGAIN!


@ Moderators: Can we please get some kind of ruling here. Laz continues to dominate any thread where the CLR is mentioned with his un-factual posts. I apologize for being the one to get involved with him in the last two threads he has brought down but it getting ridiculous and I for one am tired of his agenda against Atomic and their CLR product.
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Wow. Check your guns at the door. Laz, you're something else. Clear as that. Hilarious.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4
 

cobbler

Fractal Fanatic
Again, I have respectfully asked you now on multiple occasions not to reference me as Dude. Your reply here yet again shows your immaturity and agenda to "stir the pot".

I am not the one spreading misinformation about products. I simply tried to in a logical manner to describe to you where your reasoning is off with respect to DSP settings. Quite a few others including the OWNER of the company selling the product along with its designer have done the same. You simply refuse to accept it and try to make us look the fool with your comments about an opposing opinion. Get your facts straight and some of the opposing opinions would be gone. Simple logic.

Yet we will see that same disinformation and illogical comments in the next thread that has CLR content.

Oh.... and to clear another misconception of yours. I am most certainly not trying the get the thread closed. I love reading these threads and getting all opinions. I am clearly trying to get YOU from posting your incessant diatribe and misinformation in every one of them.
 
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OldNo.7

Inspired
Again "Dude"


The DSP dramatically alters the sound of a preset ... period. What goes in is not what comes out if you change the settings (and positions) as prescribed.

End of story.
The "room" and the "speaker position" always affects the sound. That is what the dsp settings are for, to compensate for the position you use it in. Maybe "What goes in is what comes out" should be changed to "What goes in is what reaches your ears".
 

Doc

Inspired
It would be interesting to take the audio output from the recording, and upload it to SoundCloud so we could do an audio comparison of
SoundCloud and Youtube. I have always been very leery doing sound analysis/comparisons using Youtube. They compress everything so
much, you loose a lot of sound quality. I also have questions about what was used to record the video. Was it the microphone within the camera?
Those are not known for HD audio. I vote you do it again with all us listening in while you stream the audio. They we everyone can post their
request/ideas/complaints/etc. all at once. It would be a disaster.. Ha. :)

Thanks
Wow, this thread has derailed A LOT!!
Why so, escapes me.

Well, we have absolutely NO intentions to repeat this with better audio or better/more scientific recording condititons.

We never claimed to present accurate results concerning the audio quality of the reviewed solutions.
We're only two guitar players sitting down with their expensive gear and seeing/hearing what we've got and afterwards describing it. (Using a cam to accompany the documentation and making it a bit more interesting.)
That is all.
There are no winners or losers here. We experienced 3 very good solutions (except for the Camper 112CX being too quiet in direct comparison) for the task of amplifying our profilers, and this is the essence of this shootout. There is choices, there are alternatives in exostance.
What one decides to choose can, apart from the sound, also depend on
- looks
- availability
- weight/transportability.
For me personally, my CLR's are not going anywhere.
But should I need to buy another high end FRFR cab and CLR wasn't available I know now I wouldn't hesitate to go shopping for a Q12a.

I cannot understand why people could possibly get so divided and upset over something trivial like this.
 
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LVC

Fractal Fanatic
I cannot understand why people could possibly get so divided and upset over something trivial like this.
It is not so much that things are divided ... everybody is entitled to their opinions based on their own experiences, but forums seem to get "policed" by a couple of folks (same on every forum) that simply do not want anything that can be perceived as unfavorable said about Atomic CLR. I don't know if these folks get paid by the post but it certainly seems that way.

You guys were actually warned about folks coming after you on another forum for posting your evaluation and opinions.



Pretty sad if you ask me that you have to watch over your shoulder for forum hit men when you post your opinion on something.
 
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LVC

Fractal Fanatic
The "room" and the "speaker position" always affects the sound. That is what the dsp settings are for, to compensate for the position you use it in. Maybe "What goes in is what comes out" should be changed to "What goes in is what reaches your ears".
Actually if you read the post by Jay Mitchell on The Gear Page -- He says

"There is no bass boost in any preset position when you select the proper preset and use the speaker as designed"

You can interpret that any way you want -- I interpret it as a cagy way of saying that you need a preset dialed for that position and DSP setting or else you will hear the bass cut or added.



 

Solarfire

Experienced
Ooops!...must have taken a wrong turn back there somewhere and ended up in the Jerry Springer forum....very comical though...
 

PacoCasanovas

Fractal Fanatic
"There is no bass boost in any preset position when you select the proper preset and use the speaker as designed"

You can interpret that any way you want -- I interpret it as a cagy way of saying that you need a preset dialed for that position and DSP setting or else you will hear the bass cut or added.
Hi Laz

When using a crossover it divides the low frequencies from the high frequencies. With a DSP instead of an analogue crossover circuit, you can even change the duration from high to low frequencies which results in a frequency bump or cut - but there was no boost or cutting done. With a DSP you also can optimize the spacial and boundary variances of a loudspeaker when changing his location - some psychoacoustic effects were done here to get the sound right for you.
I agree with you, these are not always necessary for best sound (best is relative in these terms anyway) . When playing guitar over a normal amp, you don't want your speaker firing direct into your face. The experience of listening in front of a guitar amp is different from the positioning of a normal hifi audio experience. So I'm also more of the traditional amp guy too....

Regarding the Camper CX 112 in terms of loudness. I read the thread at the KPA forum. Well, some of you misunderstanding the electroacustic data, which is not scientific at all. Input sensitivity (0.775V @ 0dBu is just the reference signal voltage on 0dBu) is not related to the sensitivity level of a loudspeaker, which is how much sound pressure you will get at one watt signal power at the distance of 1m from the transducer. Just 2dB can produce a huge difference in terms of needed power for the same loudness.
For example: 97dB sensitivity level at 100Watt resulting in 117dB loudness - a transducer with 95db sensitivity level need almost 160Watt of power to get the same loudness. Amp power is not related to loudness in a linear ratio.....

Bottom of line - the only monitor I tested to date was the Matrix Q12a - and I give my verdict and recommendations on products which I tested myself. I would love to checkout the other candidates myself in the future.....

Cheers
Paco
 
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BBN

Fractal Fanatic
Actually if you read the post by Jay Mitchell on The Gear Page -- He says

"There is no bass boost in any preset position when you select the proper preset and use the speaker as designed"

You can interpret that any way you want -- I interpret it as a cagy way of saying that you need a preset dialed for that position and DSP setting or else you will hear the bass cut or added.




Are you interpreting that to mean 'Axe FX preset'?
Because I think he is saying 'CLR preset'....and he is in no way saying you need to dial your Axe presets.
 
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