• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Camper 112cx vs Matrix q12a vs Atomic CLR

Brick_top

Power User
the video isn't mine, just sharing.


here is a thread the guys who made the video created

Atomic CLR vs. Matrix Q 12a vs. Camper 112 CX - Other Gear - Kemper Amps Forum

Yesterday I sat together with Günter Haas for a little shootout.
He brought his Matrix Q 12a and a Camper 112 CX that was sent to him for evaluation purpose. We had planned to evaluate these against one of my Atomic CLR's

Although we're both from Hamburg we hadn't met before so let me first say that it was a real nice afternoon sitting together with Günter and chatting about music, gear and many other things.
A real pleasure. Thank you for that, Günter! ;)

Günter has an immense experience as a musician, and he is a very versatile session player for more than 20 years so it was fairly clear that I would do the filming and he would do the playing.
He had also brought his 1966 Stratocaster which is a beautiful and very expressive guitar. All recordings were done with that beauty.

We positioned the three cabs side by side in the middle of my living room, Matrix center, Atomic to the right, Camper to the left.
Günter played riffs and phrases, and I did filming and switching betweeen two amp on the fly with the use of an A/B box.

My personal impressions are as follows:
1. Atomic CLR was the loudest. It was dialed back a bit to match the Q 12a (which was maxed) in loudness. Kemper was set to -15dB and we went pretty loud.
2. Atomic CLR in backline position with the preset switch set to 'BL' had a little less bass than the Q 12a.
3. Atomic CLR was then changed to wedge postition with the preset switch set to 'TILT'. In this position it was significantly more bass heavy and actually had more bass than the Q 12a.
4. Both CLR positions and presets were pleasing to the ear (I liked the wedge/tilt) more but in respect to fidelity I was surprised about the drastic changes that the Atomic showed compared with the unaltered Matrix Q12. (And I can't help asking: When Atomic claims fidelity comparable to studio monitors, what is true fidelity now? BL or TILT with its huge bass boost. I didn't see this documented in the CLR manual either).
5. But the focus here is, of course, guitar amplification . Actually when the CLR was in wedge/tilt position, it was REALLY hard to tell which is which and I had to get close to the cabs several times just to make sure which one I was hearing. They were nearly indistinguishable. Awesome, both the Q 12a and the CLR.
6. Now for the Camper 112 CX. We had had very high hopes for this one, but it was a real disappointment. Why? Because it is so quiet that you NEVER EVER can dream of keeping up with a moderate drummer. Either we had a defective unit or KPA-solutions really have to re-work the poweramp of this one completely. To match full power on the Camper we had to turn down the Matrix to 9:00 - 9:30 of its volume pot which is ridiculously quiet.
You can clearly notice we turned down in that part of the video as the cam mic captures a lot mor of Günter's string attack.
7. Apart from the missing loudness though, the Camper is a nice cab. So PLEASE RE-WORK the poweramp of this.
8. Is there a winner? Hmm, I don't think so. What I have learned though is that the Matrix Q12a is absolutely up to par with the CLR. Also it is lighter than the CLR and I like the form factor very much. Should I need another gigh quality stage monitor with a more amp like form factor i would seriously consider the Matrix.

Feel free to comment and have fun watching the vid!
 

Ole

Power User
Yes very interesting indeed. Thank you for sharing this, and thank you to those who made the fair and honest review.
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
People are posting this all over the Net in various forums.

Great! The more opinions, the more viewpoints, the more information out there to consider.

I know the CLR is freaking awesome because I bought one and use it daily. I am looking forward to checking the Matrix offerings out in person first weekend of October at the Axe-Fest West II.
 

klaushouz

Experienced
To have a good comparison, it is helpful to play the exact riff or chords through all speakers at the same volume. If someone does this again with a looper playing the same thing , it would be MUCH easier to evaluate the outcome. Just sayin'
 

Brick_top

Power User
Remember this is a video and it is not in any way a valid form of evaluating a speaker, I only posted it because of the reviewers conclusion.
 

666was999

Power User
Even though the sound quality of the YT vid is not that good, it's enough to get the impression that there are not worlds between the CLR and the Q12a.
 

Doc

Inspired
Even though the sound quality of the YT vid is not that good, it's enough to get the impression that there are not worlds between the CLR and the Q12a.
Disclaimer: I am one of the guys doing that shootout. I'm the one filming. :)


Yes, YT added some horrible phasing to the parts with the more distorted material that was not on the original vid. That is aweful!

To those demanding more scientific conditions: We intentionally didn't want to go the scientific route and use a looper, place the cabs in exactly the same environment etc.
And we wouldn't have recorded with a hand cam to begin with.
All we wanted to do was a little comparison. The filming is only part of the accompanying documentation.

It was fun for us, useful for us, and useful for some others, that's all.
Günter and I agreed that we could do very well with either of the solutions.
 

painkiller

Experienced
I am one of the guys doing that shootout. I'm the one filming. :)
Hey Doc, I'm a little surprised about what you wrote about the Camper 112 CX, that it cant keep up with a moderate drummer. Because a bandmate owns this amp and hence I know that this one is loud as hell and I have the strong believe that it can keep up with a starting space shuttle ;)

But my bandmate bought the Camper 112 CX prototype as far as I know. It could be of course that there is a difference between the prototype and the production models.
 

Doc

Inspired
Hey Doc, I'm a little surprised about what you wrote about the Camper 112 CX, that it cant keep up with a moderate drummer. Because a bandmate owns this amp and hence I know that this one is loud as hell and I have the strong believe that it can keep up with a starting space shuttle ;)

But my bandmate bought the Camper 112 CX prototype as far as I know. It could be of course that there is a difference between the prototype and the production models.
We couldn't believe it either. It may well be that something with the unit was defective so we're asking the manufacturers to check if this unit was in good working condition or not.
If it was, either the poweramp or the input sensitivity need reworking in our opinion.
It was really obvious that the CX couldn't compete at all loudness-wise.
 

Ole

Power User
I really like the way you guys did this. I couldn't care les about all the scientific curves in the world.
What matters to me, is what people can hear with their own ears in the given situation.
Thank you for doing this.
 

Doc

Inspired
I really like the way you guys did this. I couldn't care les about all the scientific curves in the world.
What matters to me, is what people can hear with their own ears in the given situation.
Thank you for doing this.
You're welcome! Glad you find it as useful as we did.
 

666was999

Power User
What I'm still surprised about is the lows.
When I measured the response curve of my Q12a using the AxeII's IR capture tools, I found a gap at around 150HZ and a roll off beginning at 100Hz. So the lows are by far less loud compared to other FRFR mons like the RCF Art 310a or 412a or alike. And I had been thinking of that as a weakness, caused by the speaker and the small housing.
Now it seems when you set the switch on the CLR to the BL position it has even less lows? Eventhough it could produce louder lows they wanted to tame them to make it better for the backline? Weired.
 

LVC

Fractal Fanatic
What I'm still surprised about is the lows.
When I measured the response curve of my Q12a using the AxeII's IR capture tools, I found a gap at around 150HZ and a roll off beginning at 100Hz. So the lows are by far less loud compared to other FRFR mons like the RCF Art 310a or 412a or alike. And I had been thinking of that as a weakness, caused by the speaker and the small housing.
Now it seems when you set the switch on the CLR to the BL position it has even less lows? Eventhough it could produce louder lows they wanted to tame them to make it better for the backline? Weired.
I got slammed around 7 months ago when I said I found the CLR a little too bass heavy for my tastes and I thought the EQ switch added or cut too much bass. I personally found the Q12 more balanced and easier to dial in which is why I eventually settled on that solution.


It is all about personal preferences.

2013 is a very good year.

We have a lot of solutions on the market to choose from.

 

LVC

Fractal Fanatic
Do we really want to go there again ? ;-)
Go where?

That there are folks who think the CLR is a little bass heavy and is not the holy grail as has been promoted on this and other forums?

What is the big deal?


Folks are entitled to their own opinions and gear preferences based on their own experiences.
 

flyingfadr

Power User
It was a joke... j... o... k... e... : an attempt at humor... to try NOT to go back to the endless debates on who is wrong and who is right...
 

AlbertA

Fractal Fanatic
Go where?

That there are folks who think the CLR is a little bass heavy and is not the holy grail as has been promoted on this and other forums?

What is the big deal?


Folks are entitled to their own opinions and gear preferences based on their own experiences.
Not my experience, though I have them in free field setting on poles. For me it's been the flattest monitor I've used.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LVC
Top Bottom