cabIR.eu TESTIFY IR`s: Amp-in-the-room for In-Ears & Guitar Cabinet feel for FRFR?

Morphosis

Official G66 Support
Dear Community!

Working on some IR stuff and would love some notes from you in reference for two Tests:

TEST 1 is for heaphone-bedroom player & In-Ear users.
Could be "natural room" included in IRs, respecting the 170ms Ultra-Res paradigm be an advantage in comparison just easily using the algorithm room verb from the Cab-Block?

files:
STEREOROOM-IN-EAR_LEFT
STEREOROOM-IN-EAR_RIGHT

Test setting: Preset from scratch: shunt line, default Amp-Block ->
X) STEREO-CAB BLOCK (UR): place in both IRs left and right and (IMPORTANT) pan both sides 100% left and 100% right. Don`t use the Room Verb in the cab block. natural room is included in those two files, which work in conjunction as pair hard left/right panned.

compare this to reference:
Y) MONO-CAB-BLOCK (UR): place in one of the attached MONO-FRFR IRs which suits you best in frequency comparison to the Stereo IRs in X) and set the room verb in the cab-block as wanted.

What do you say?

TEST2 is for PA/FRFR Monitor players (to replace a real guitar cabinet).
Due to the fact, that FRFR Monitors have some physical and technical aspects, which did not allow them to "feel" and "sound" exactly like a real cabinet, the search to get closer did never end for some.

Test setting: Preset from scratch: shunt line, default Amp-Block -> MONO-CAB-BLOCK (UR)
X) MONO-FRFR 00 IR (as reference) vs.
Y) MONO-FRFR 01,02,03,04

Please Test under rehearsal / live conditions = LOUD thru FRFR Monitor (CLR, Matrix Q12, Yamaha, etc...).

Which IR give you most guitar cabinet sound/feel? Why? Is there an advantage in feel/sound to the 00 IR in reference? Or just different as any IRs will be?

The Cab these IRs are from will match best with clean to break-up Amps. So, fenderish or voxish stuff. I suggest for example the AC30 HOT, because it does everything from clean to crunch easily.

So, in general: Do you get the IRs sound good without mutch tweaking from the default Amp settings? Opinions? Suggestions?

HERE ARE THE 7 IR FILES FOR DOWNLOAD (Zip folder; FAS .syx for easy drag&drop transfering via Cab-manager from Axe-Edit):
http://www.cabir.eu/_external_content/cabIR.eu_TESTFILES_FRFRMONO_+_STEREOROOM-IN-EAR_FASsyx.zip

A BIG THANK you in advance for hopefully a lot qualified feedback and critique! I really appreciate every note from you!

Thanks
Markus
 
Because of comments in the german thread, i want to point out two things (again):

For the STEREOROOM IRs (TEST1) make sure you pan the stero-cab-block apart from the default value -25/+25 to full -100/+100. Use In-ears or headphones! That`s for what they were made! Also: The room ratio to the back/close mics is fairly high to pronounce the effect. It could be soften due to other mix ratios and/or mic charackteristic (bi-directional instead of omni-directional).
 
Going through test 1, to my ears full 100% L/R is a little too much. it feels like the sound is wider than my headphones and after an extended period of time is getting to be kind of dizzying (I've dropped it to 75% each and its much better). both of the IR's together overall are kind of phase-y to my ears but it could just be the pronounced room resonances im not used to hearing. Cleans feel much nicer than dirt to me but if there was more direct signal the dirt would fare much better imo. Interesting test though, what cab was shot for this if you dont mind me asking?
 
OK guys, I´ve done a quick video, how i checked the STEREROOM candidate. So, when i have to play silently with In-Ears at home, it sounds like this with a Strat...

Please respect the countless hours i`ve invested into the Preset and the tweaking of the Amp Block ;)

 
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Thanks for sharing,

I just loaded the IR and I quickly tested the headphone version with a Div / 13 CJ Boost amp

- The stereo effect is very nice!

( AKG K701 headphone here, This is not necessarily the best thing for this use, but it is quite neutral and relatively balanced, it is open and allows a good spacialization)

- In the first second I was a bit surprised by the sound, like there was a "Phase effect"

- After pushing the level of the amp, I started to better perceive this effect , like "amp in the room"

- Really cool alternative solution to the amp verb of the cab blocks, which is a very nice tool too...

:)
 
Allright, allright. Seems, the limitations of 170ms Ultra-Res and the very few room-mic captures will not bring THAT advantage against using algorithm reverb from the Axe-Fx itself...

Anyhow: I did a second video, but first excuse me: It`s in german and you hear the naked guitar through the Talk Mic when playing (which is only on the left side...argh). So, it seems i have to learn some lessons in doing videos, meh ... BUT:

You should get the idea, just watching the video. Some aspects of MPT and RAW, some trying to do some different Stereo room / ambient mixes in Cab-Lab 3, using a Stereo-Cab-Block (UR) and load different room mic captures to scratch pad 1 (left and scratch pad 2 (right).

I used here the darker sounding Plexi 1970 in combination with the bright sounding cabIR.eu MR-8X10 cab from 1968, loaded with those old 10Watt Celestion T7442 speakers. This cab i like also very well with those Fender Tweeds (Bassmann, 5f1, Tweed Deluxe, etc...) or other darker sounding clean to break up Amps ...

Perhaps some get some proposals for whatever ... :)

 
I did last night the test with the stereo IR's with headphones and they sound really different in a pleasant way and today I was in my room to try try the Mono Loud FRFR IR's. Like Markus said, I used a AC30 Hot Preset and put in order the reference ir "00" and also "01 - 04" in scratchpad. I don't use a AC30 for live, so I had now straight the vibe of Rory Gallagher for me hearing the tone with this ir's. I haven't played any Rory songs for over 45 years, so the licks are a bit slopy played by me. I really liked in this order: the reference ir "00" second the "04" and last the "01". "02 and 03" I found a bit honky sounding. On the end I used for comparison my Marshall 2x12 with Celestions Heritage 25W "Made in the UK" and my Peavy 50/50 Tube poweramp, which I haven't done for month now. The real cab still sounds a bit different, but the ir's are pretty close to the sound and feel and in the room I prefered actually the sound of the IR's, while now listen back to the Handy Video the real Cab seems to be more spungy.

 
Tony, many thanks for testing and the whole work doing the video! I listen to it carefully and came to the conclusion, not to follow any longer my IR exspecially for more "guitar cabinet" translation. If you want to "trim" FRFR+close mic/mix behaviour to more guitar cabinet "feel", i think those guys should try EQing it.

And don`t get me wrong; this is not related on those special IRs or cabIR.eu IRs in common, it`s my opinion for close mic / close mic mix IRs in common, IF (!!!!) you unsatisfied with FRFR:

Stay on real cabinets or try PEQ EQ in those areas:
- Instead of extensive Lo-Cut (and destroy thump, pressure), try a decreasement of the 200-500Hz boominess area
- Force the mids wideband = (small Q factor) increasement in the 600Hz-3000Hz area (center frequency: 600 - 1200 as a start point)
- "ice picky" or harshness: Instead of extensive hi-cut, which will result in muddy tone, decrease with a peak filter and smaller bandwide (higher Q) the 3K - 5K Hz area.

Again: This is not relevant for the majority. This may contraproductive for FOH Soundguy. This may not needed, if you are fine with FRFR and good IRs. This is just for those guys, who still prefer real guitar cabinet sound instead of FRFR+IR, but want although try to trim their FRFR "feel" closer to their real cabinet.

There are physically differences between FRFR and guitar cabinet, we have to accept. Personally i have no problems and be very comfortable and fine with FRFR and good IRs. Don`t use any EQ stuff for myself in my presets for FRFR, just to be clear.
 
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