Cab sim on / off on non FRFR setup, new conclusions.

Roadrunner

Power User
So, I decided to change my XL rig so I got an AX8 and also a tube amp, Mesa TC-50 (haven’t touched tube amps in 5 years!).

With the XL, I used to run it through a Matrix GT1000FX and 2 Matrix NL212 with cab sim ON and it sounded like a dream.
Whenever I switched cab sim to OFF, I felt all the air, ballsy, fatness is gone and all left is a mosquito sound, really, I just could not play like that.

Now, with the Mesa TC, I run it together with the AX8 in 4CM and I paired it with a Mesa Recto OS 4x12 and the sound is a killer.
Few of my presets are running FX only from the AX8 + the TC preamp / channels and some use amp simulation from the AX8 as well so only the power section (return) of the Mesa is used in this case.

Interesting thing is that I simply don’t and can’t use the cab sim ON in no way when using the AX8 amps through the Mesa amp and cab (Recto 4x12), it simply sound so dark with cab sim ON.
So, cab sim OFF all the way.

It’s interesting how different are the Matrix NL212 from the Mesa 4x12, I think that the reason for that (cab sim ON sounds good on the Matrix and bad on the Mesa) is due to the difference in frequency range between the two cabs:

Matrix are “extended range” running 55-20,000 Hz.
Mesa (Celestion Vintage 30s) run frequency range of 70-5000Hz.

Anyway, I really like the change.
 
Correct - you should switch off cab sim when using a guitar cab, otherwise you are running a cab into another cab.

Your Matrix speakers are full range, like PA speakers, so you can use cab sim. Simples innit?
 
I actually thought the NL212 was extended range rather than full range, with extended range usually covering frequencies up to around 10,500Hz?
 
That must be a misprint as the NL12's are extended but not full range. You'll probably find them going up to around 7khz but sometimes just enough to warrant a cab sim shaving the top end off. All Neodymium speakers are a little brighter by nature so that also adds to the top end extension.
 
Correct - you should switch off cab sim when using a guitar cab, otherwise you are running a cab into another cab.
I know that :) but in the case of the NL's, it's a different story, its simply sounds MUCH better with cab sim ON.

Your Matrix speakers are full range, like PA speakers, so you can use cab sim. Simples innit?
No, they are not FR, they are somewhere in between traditional and FRFR, they are "Extended range", see the frequency range in my OP.

I actually thought the NL212 was extended range rather than full range, with extended range usually covering frequencies up to around 10,500Hz?
Up to 20KHz actually.

And they do sound different than a traditional cab, also when runing with a tube amp.



NL212 F range.jpg
 
I didn't get along well with the Matrix speakers I had for short time (NL12s?). Honestly, I think it was more because I didn't know what to tweak with them connected. Now, I'd probably at least tweak the speaker settings on the amp block and add a little high and low cut.

I have a TC-50 also, and I haven't tried my AFX 2 XL+ in 4CM with it yet; I've just been using my regular pedals so far. I have the AFX and TC-50 setup as two separate rigs (which is ridiculous since it's just in my bedroom lol). What a phenomenal amp though! I have kind of considered getting an FX8 to replace and/or complement my other pedals, but we'll see. :)
 
I have a TC-50 also, and I haven't tried my AFX 2 XL+ in 4CM with it yet; I've just been using my regular pedals so far. I have the AFX and TC-50 setup as two separate rigs (which is ridiculous since it's just in my bedroom lol). What a phenomenal amp though! I have kind of considered getting an FX8 to replace and/or complement my other pedals, but we'll see

One of the main reasons I decided to replace the XL with an AX8 was so I can have both units (AX8 + TC50) running together via midi, I'm running a midi cable from the AX8 to the TC50, the control is flawless, the MIDI tab on AX8Edit is doing a great job.

My next test is going to build a W/D/W setup of the Mesa half stack (D) and Matrix amp paired with the 2 Matrix NL212 (W = L + R).
I have no regrets at all from going to the AX8 and using a tube amp, I like it BUT I do miss the stereo setup VERY much, I've been running stereo rigs since the early 2K, even in the days of the minibar rack prior to the AxeFX, all the time.
No doubt the sound miss something in mono compared to a true stereo.
 
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Now I am confused because Matrix say themselves it is 'extended range' and the NL12 specs and freq response only show up to around 10500Hz and the NL212 appears to be just dual/stereo version of it.
By comparison their speakers marketed as full range do have up to 20KHz response.

Beginning to think I have either lost the plot or as already suggested there is a typo on the Matrix specs for the NL212.
 
I can only say they (NL212) sound amazing with cab sim ON and really bad when its OFF and its non to compare with FRFR as I also had a set of these and went through 10000000000000000000000 tests, NL212 vs. XiTone FRFR.
They are very different.
 
I guess that's the thing, no matter what the specs say... if it sounds good then that's all that matters.
 
One of the main reasons I decided to replace the XL with an AX8 was so I can have both units (AX8 + TC50) running together via midi, I'm running a midi cable from the AX8 to the TC50, the control is flawless, the MIDI tab on AX8Edit is doing a great job.

My next test is going to build a W/D/W setup of the Mesa half stack (D) and Matrix amp paired with the 2 Matrix NL212 (W = L + R).
I have no regrets at all from going to the AX8 and using a tube amp, I like it BUT I do miss the stereo setup VERY much, I've been running stereo rigs since the early 2K, even in the days of the minibar rack prior to the AxeFX, all the time.
No doubt the sound miss something in mono compared to a true stereo.

I'm a little confused. What was missing from the XL's MIDI functionality?

I built a W/D/W setup using the TC-50 , Axe FX XL+, and Matrix GT1000FX. The TC-50 running a Mesa vertical 2x12 and the Matrix running a pair of horizontal 2x12s. I was using:

Normal pedals in front of the TC-50 (not many needed).
TC-50 speaker output to the vertical 2x12.
TC-50 line out (mono) to the XL+ (REAR input 1).
XL+ output 1 (stereo) to the Matrix inputs.
Matrix outputs (stereo) to pair of horizontal 2x12s.

Yes, it was glorious. I then tore it all apart into two separate rigs lol.

The TC-50's line out benefits from the power amp section which is nice. And I couldn't figure out how to do the W/D/W with just a normal 4CM where I could have effects from the XL+ in front of the amp, and in the amp's loop, AND run those effects stereo.

EDIT: And now I think I figured out how to do what I wanted to. I think.
 
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One of the main reasons I decided to replace the XL with an AX8 was so I can have both units (AX8 + TC50) running together via midi, I'm running a midi cable from the AX8 to the TC50, the control is flawless, the MIDI tab on AX8Edit is doing a great job.

My next test is going to build a W/D/W setup of the Mesa half stack (D) and Matrix amp paired with the 2 Matrix NL212 (W = L + R).
I have no regrets at all from going to the AX8 and using a tube amp, I like it BUT I do miss the stereo setup VERY much, I've been running stereo rigs since the early 2K, even in the days of the minibar rack prior to the AxeFX, all the time.
No doubt the sound miss something in mono compared to a true stereo.

Hey Roadrunner,

Why are you missing stereo? You can still do stereo no problem, can't you?

And still wondering what the AX8 can do with MIDI that the XL can't.

Thanks
 
Why are you missing stereo? You can still do stereo no problem, can't you?

And still wondering what the AX8 can do with MIDI that the XL can't.

As I'm running the AX8 in 4CM with the Mesa TC, its mono and not stereo as I used to have when I was using the Matrix out to 2 cabs.

There is nothing special in the 8 concerning midi, I just wanted 3 in 1, heaving both FX and pedalboard and midi controller for the Amp in one piece.
If I would run the XL for that, it's the XL + a midi controller.
Nothing special here, just more portable.
 
As I'm running the AX8 in 4CM with the Mesa TC, its mono and not stereo as I used to have when I was using the Matrix out to 2 cabs.

There is nothing special in the 8 concerning midi, I just wanted 3 in 1, heaving both FX and pedalboard and midi controller for the Amp in one piece.
If I would run the XL for that, it's the XL + a midi controller.
Nothing special here, just more portable.

Ah I see. Makes sense. You can definitely run stereo (or W/D/W) if you add the Matrix back into the mix. I know you're already kicking that idea around though. :)
 
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